Have you ever fallen in love with a provider?

100% agree, I would not want my son to be a monger, because it changes your perspective on girls in general.

I have fallen in love with hundreds of providers, usually for about one hour and occasionally for two hours. I have many repeat visits with a select few providers. Enjoy life this is not a dress rehearsal.

I have to disagree. In my opinion, this hobby reflects and reveals your attitude towards women, much the same way that alcohol doesn't put any thoughts in your head, but brings what's already in your head to the surface and lowers the inhibitions that normally keep them from coming out.

I have to disagree. In my opinion, this hobby reflects and reveals your attitude towards women, much the same way that alcohol doesn't put any thoughts in your head, but brings what's already in your head to the surface and lowers the inhibitions that normally keep them from coming out.

I agree that people’s fundamental natures don’t change through exposure to whores or substances.
But that doesn’t mean that long term addictions can’t shape and warp one’s relationship to life.

While I tend to be a free-speech absolutist, I can see an argument for banning porn. I believe that constant exposure to porn does change your perspective on both life and women over time: I think it creates and wires certain pathways in the brain, which begin to see sexual opportunity in almost every situation. And worse, can cause men to act upon such perceived opportunities when it’s totally inappropriate.

Mongering to me seems more benign, though I’m sure watching porn can lead to more mongering!

I can NEVER picture myself having sex with a middle aged woman. And I mean NEVER.
It would never work and will never happen.

So being a lifelong, habitual monger has absolutely contributed to my not being able to have a "normal life" (wife, kids, grandkids, etc..). The "American Dream" so to speak. The kind of life a guy like Mitt Romney has, and seems very happy with. Just using him as a example, not talking about his politics at all. Just an older, successful guy with what seems like a big, happy family with kids, grand kids and probably soon to be great grand kids. That's the American Dream that most parents have for their sons. Not to be almost 60 and obsess over banging hot, young Japanese girls...

While I tend to be a free-speech absolutist, I can see an argument for banning porn. I believe that constant exposure to porn does change your perspective on both life and women over time: I think it creates and wires certain pathways in the brain, which begin to see sexual opportunity in almost every situation. And worse, can cause men to act upon such perceived opportunities when it’s totally inappropriate. Mongering to me seems more benign, though I’m sure watching porn can lead to more mongering!

Porn addiction is way way worse. Kids are learning to have sex watching pornos so it definitely warps their minds

I don't think any normal adult male watches porn and thinks it's either OK or realistic to flirt with a girl during a job interview or house tour (etc.) and expect to stick your dick in her the way it works in porn.

I’ve used porn as much as the next guy, but I don’t approve of it, any more than I approve of drugs.

I think the effect is often subtler than what you describe. It’s walking into a room and immediately fantasizing about the sex you’d be having with that real estate agent, while in no way betraying your thoughts. Yet being unable to shake the fantasy. ... Of course you could argue that this is the nature of being a guy; but I feel that porn has acted as a force-multiplier on male sexual impulses, on our thoughts, even when we act as ‘perfect gentlemen’.

I don't get this or why you'd be content to live as a self-described hypocrite. One of the most important qualities or values a person can have is his integrity, which means not doing things, especially habitually, that you consider wrong.
I'd never excuse anything based on the nature of being a guy, which is how a lot of guys rationalize their justification for subscribing to double standards. However, there's no moral component or right and wrong about thoughts and desires that never leave your head. For one thing, thoughts and desires are involuntary. All that matters is whether or not you act on those thoughts and desires and whether or not those thoughts and desires "leak" into your outward behavior. A eunuch or a gay man don't get moral "credit" for being a gentleman for not leering at or being sexually crude towards women, because they don't even have that impulse in the first place. What makes you a gentleman is the fact that a hot woman you work with or know casually has never picked up the slightest clue from you you, or ever felt uncomfortable around you, because you've kept your thoughts entirely to yourself even though you can't help fantasizing about fucking her brains out. The fact that porn might increase those thoughts is a moot point, as long as it doesn't change your external behavior.

I once worked as an athletic director and shortly after I was hired, the executive director's hot secretary took me down to an unoccupied basement office to check an unused computer to see if it could work as my computer. She always wore 5" pumps and pencil skirts and she lead me down there walking in front of me. When she got to the pc, she bent over right in front of me so obviously that I knew she had to know exactly what she was doing, but I didn't know whether she had any intention of actually starting something with me or was just doing that because she liked teasing guys, as some women do, even when they have zero intention of doing anything with them. I pretended I didn't even notice, but the minute I got back to my office, I immediately locked the door and rubbed one out. About a month or two later, she asked me for a ride home after some public function we had to attend. During the month or so in between, she was the person I had to go to every time I needed anything printed out, because my office didn't yet have a printer, so I was in her office almost daily, and depending on what she was wearing, I'd sometimes have to rub one out as soon as I got back to my office. At some point during the conversation on the ride home from that function, she asked me about my training and diet and said something about my body...and then she asked me if I was attracted to her. That, right there, is what I'm talking about, because I gave her no clue that I'd even noticed her sexually until she asked me. Obviously, I told her that I was so attracted to her that I often had to take care of myself in my office after being in her office, starting with that first time that she bent over in front of me...and as soon as we parked outside her building, she had my dick out and down her throat. From then on, she'd call me sounding all professional, for the benefit of her coworkers nearby, about some work matter she needed to see me about...and then she'd come down to blow me. She said she'd have blown me right in that basement office that first time we were alone if I'd picked up on her hints, but she didn't think I even noticed her. That's the point: not too many guys are so horny that they immediately need to jerk off after talking to a girl in a hot skirt and heels, but even I don't let that influence how I interact with women unless I know they want something sexual from me.

Her hints were so obvious, you were rude in not hitting on her in the beginning.

That's my point. Very few scenarios are anything close to being so obvious and (probably) safe to act on. So, I don't think it should ever be a problem in ordinary situations where the girl isn't even really doing anything provocative besides looking good and being in the same room as us. If it had been in a totally different environment, like maybe looking for a coat together at a party, all alone in the bedroom with all the coats, I might have done something; but this was in an office and for all I knew, she was just a psycho who enjoys teasing guys at work. In my defense, I also knew she had a kid and didn't find out that she was divorced until we were talking in the car, which was probably the first time we really talked about anything not work-related.

Zippy is giving a masterclass on how to avoid being accused of sexual assault or sexual harassment or garden variety sex-pest-weirdo.

Thanks Man. It’s pretty simple to me: freely enjoy whatever private thoughts and fantasies you may have about anybody, but don’t do anything to act on it without an explicit invitation, and that includes any kind of interaction — even just prolonged eye contact — that could give a girl the creeps. Basically, don’t look at or talk to women you don’t know any differently than you’d look at or talk to another dude. And if someone doesn’t understand what that means, just imagine the way a gay guy could just look at you or maintain eye contact or speak to you in a tone of voice or inflection that creeps you out or pisses you off and don’t do that shit to women you don’t know.

This is crazy. You think people should look down at the ground maybe too??!! If a girl looks at you you should never look away first unless you find her absolutely unattractive. I get eye contact with Women and i don't stop looking. I get unwanted approaches at work being a no . But no one should walk on egg shells around other people.

I do. All of my friends know, my wife knows, her friends who aren't clsoed-minded or too dopey to understand know, and my father would know if he were still alive. He knew of my life in strip clubs and was very nice to the nude dancer I once brought home to meet him.


I apologize for wasting the time of someone of your intellect.

I guess it depends on how one was raised. A person of faith would know the type of behavior we exhibit is wrong, all day long. If you were raised to think being a degenerate and having and paying for shameful meaningless sex with strangers is a good and positive thing it's probably a chasm too wide to cross or have a meaningful discussion about.

I think I'm perfectly comfortable allowing anybody interested in reading our respective contributions to this thread, in particular, to decide which one of us is actually capable of having a "meaningful discussion" about this topic and which one of us might have some very serious psychological issues relating to self-hatred, unresolved personal conflicts in the realm of sexuality, projection of that self-hatred and those conflicts onto women, and incredibly delusional levels of hypocrisy and rationalization.