What the hell is wrong with me ? Am I jaded?

[Uniquelyme]

Very very good points and strategies. I like the way subtle easing into hand holding .
Tomorrow I'm busking in Soho and there are always tons of hot girls walking by , some who stop and listen or maybe take a vid of me.
Will try to a get a phone number IG handle.

I don't agree with getting their IG. To them another follower is welcomed.

Didnt thoroughly read his long post. However caught some of it and yes casual touching and building a connection works better than asking for permission to hold her hand, that i can agree with.

 

[Retired032824]

First, let me commend you on taking a shot...when hitting on women, you never lose, you either win or learn lessons and get better while enjoying yourself in the process. I've got a bunch of thoughts so I'll just pour 'em out in no particular order. They're not as philosophical as some of the other comments but more tactical.

- If you're vibing, before she gets a chance to disappear, get her social media contacts like on instagram, fb, or kakaotalk. It's like asking for numbers these days, but also easy to do if you segue into it naturally, like talking about how everybody's obsessed with instagramming these days. you can then contact her later or at least have memories of her. and screenshot those, bc they may well unconnect or block you later.

- I do think she just met an interesting person on the day before her flight and enjoyed the experience...that's part of seeing the world. I don't think she was looking for money or to have sex. Young hot upscale girls are rarely rarely trying to hook up with a much older man. doesn't mean you can't try.

- having said that, you definitely could improve the escalation techniques and make it more natural and with less negative consequence if it doesn't work. done naturally, the worst case scenario is an enjoyable night out, lots of flirting practice, and a hug goodbye with the possibility of more.

- asking to hold hands suddenly is a bit abrupt and unnatural. if a girl wasn't interested to begin with, it'll make it very awkward. much better to make the escalation more natural like when joking and both are laughing, lightly touch her upper arms casually. or engineer a situation where there is mutual agreement and enthusiasm and high five her. any contact is the beginning for escalation (classic pickup artist techniques that I've used even before i knew it was a technique)

- slowly and naturally increasing the amount of physical contact will make the next step more natural. don't make it obvious and there's no guarantees with this, but it's one of a multi-pronged approach. you wouldn't ask a civvie girl for a blowjob without some prior physical contact, so it's the same thing, just steps being taken to escalate, like slowly boiling a frog.

- warm up to the topic of dating and feel out what her situation is from an indirect angle. she's visiting NY so it's easy to ask about how she likes NYU or NY. Ask about the nightlife which inevitably leads to dating culture and what she thinks of the guys in NY.

- make yourself an empathetic and soulful figure. once you're on the topic of dating or girls / guys in general, maybe she'll open up to you about what she's into and what she's not, tho no need to take that as a red light if you're not her type.

- once on the topic of dating, she might ask about you or you can steer it that way. many ways to take it depending on her and your game, but one way might be to talk about your own heart breaks that will make her unconsciously empathize and root for you, make her see things from your perspective, humanize you and make you a romantic figure, not just an older interesting man she met on her NY adventure.

- be as funny and non-linear as possible. I am terrible at this as my career and personality (and possibly adhd?) tends to make me extremely logical, linear, and serious. before dates or going out, i watch stream of comedy routines on youtube for an hour or two, so I get in the right zone...seeing things from an angle, seeing the irony, humour, and absurdity in situations, instead of analyzing them for a solution or being critical.

- even when I'm on a roll humour wise and making the girl laugh, I make a point to look for rare moments when I can be (or seem) unintentionally vulnerable. for example, we might be joking about dating mishaps or exes and I might laugh a long but suddenly be a little silent or look off into the distance for a split second before forcing myself to laugh along.

- this will make it seem like you are a soulful and vulnerable person, which brings out the motherly and empathetic instincts in girls. it will make you seem a deeper person and make her not want to hurt you.

- I'm realizing I sound like a total sociopath or Dennis from Always Sunny in Philadelphia...just trying to do a brain dump of ideas that may or may not be helpful

- the D.E.N.N.I.S. System if you're curious...

- being a musician and busker is an amazing advantage, especially for girls who like music. at a minimum, it's a great entry way to interact and flirt with a ton of girls. and a great topic to talk about and make you look cool, artistic, and soulful. if I had your skills, I'd be chatting and flirting with girls all the time, even if nothing came from it...which means you have nothing to lose...which means you're confident and creates a low pressure situation for girls to enjoy and hang out with you.

- I definitely would've taken her for drinks, not a cafe. maybe a classy wine bar or jazzy place. and get lost in conversation. no downside in lowered inhibitions, not just for possible sex, but for better conversation. Even if I don't bang a girl on a date, I enjoy the flirting and feeling the warmth of her body heat near me...I enjoy the sexual tension, even if sadly only in my mind sometimes.

ok that was almost a short story...hope it helps. very open to criticism and improvements as I'm still actively dating civilians and picking up girls half my age...or trying to.



Verbose as this is, it is on point. OP needs the magic word.. patience.. Patience and opportunity. The door will open, however if the door gets kicked in, it rattles people. He kicked the door in. He basically said here is dinner, now i want to get in your pants. She was insulted. This isn't a by the hour woman, and therein lies the lack of patience. There is no romance in the hobby business. Some of these guys think it is, they are simply simps getting played by a pro. This was a classy young woman, sharing a NYC experience with an older man, one whim she thought was above that. That is why she was there in the first place.

Now if it was me, I would have sprung for a high end hotel room with a piano bar. Something like the old Booby short setup at the Carlyle. After drinks, and some music, I might have gently asked if she would like to go upstairs for a nightcap. Might have gone differently. Ambiance goes a long way.

There is an interesting gentleman who writes a column about men and women. His name is David D'Angelo. He talks about the power and attraction in relationships, dating and established coupes. Once you lose the attraction, it is difficult to regain it. It might me something you do, something you say, being cheap, blurting things out. Whatever it is, once a woman loses her attraction for you, it is over. She lost her attraction for him, for all the previously stated reasons. The only lesson learned for the OP is what not to do next time.

 

[Retired032824]

Verbose as this is, it is on point. OP needs the magic word.. patience.. Patience and opportunity. The door will open, however if the door gets kicked in, it rattles people. He kicked the door in. He basically said here is dinner, now i want to get in your pants. She was insulted. This isn't a by the hour woman, and therein lies the lack of patience. There is no romance in the hobby business. Some of these guys think it is, they are simply simps getting played by a pro. This was a classy young woman, sharing a NYC experience with an older man, one whom she thought was above that. That is why she was there in the first place.

Now if it was me, I would have sprung for a high end hotel room with a piano bar. Something like the old Booby Short setup at the Carlyle. After drinks, and some music, I might have gently asked if she would like to go upstairs for a nightcap. Might have gone differently. Ambiance goes a long way.

There is an interesting gentleman who writes a column about men and women. His name is David D'Angelo. He talks about the power and attraction in relationships, dating and established coupes. Once you lose the attraction, it is difficult to regain it. It might me something you do, something you say, being cheap, blurting things out. Whatever it is, once a woman loses her attraction for you, it is over. She lost her attraction for him, for all the previously stated reasons. The only lesson learned for the OP is what not to do next time.

 

[Nutopia1]

@wackadoo
Again I can tell by your comment that you did not read my entire post.
How is being patient possible when she is leaving for Korea the next day ?
It was now or never. This is the second time I've had to correct you on this , lol.

 

[Retired032824]

Again I can tell by your comment that you did not read my entire post.
How is being patient possible when she is leaving for Korea the next day ?
It was now or never. This is the second time I've had to correct you on this , lol.

I read your entire post, patience is always possible. The fact that she was leaving the next day was to your advantage This is the second time I have tried to explain this. I am seeing why she got up and left. It was not now or never, that is your entire problem. Your perception. You did not relax and use the evening. You acted out of desperation as if there was a gun to your head. I am not going to try and explain, because I think it will fall on deaf ears. Good luck in your future endeavors.

" If you keep doing things the exact same way, every time, expect the same outcome"

 

[Nutopia1]

I read your entire post, patience is always possible. The fact that she was leaving the next day was to your advantage This is the second time I have tried to explain this. I am seeing why she got up and left. It was not now or never, that is your entire problem. Your perception. You did not relax and use the evening. You acted out of desperation as if there was a gun to your head. I am not going to try and explain, because I think it will fall on deaf ears. Good luck in your future endeavors.

" If you keep doing things the exact same way, every time, expect the same outcome"

Oh I didn't know you were at our table in Little Italy taking notes.
And you also falsely said she pressured me to take her to a fancy dinner.
You are wildly off base. There is a difference btw reading and comprehension .

 

[Retired032824]

Oh I didn't know you were at our table in Little Italy taking notes.
And you also falsely said she pressured me to take her to a fancy dinner.
You are wildly off base. There is a difference btw reading and comprehension .

I did not say she pressured you , you pressured her for sex. You are confused

Little Italy ? Could it get any more unromantic ?
I’m not looking for a verbal slugfest - you did everything wrong , you are defensive and unwilling to listen

The tale of the tape is , you got to first base , kudos , you failed to engage her , failed to impress her beyond dinner , struck out when it came to intimacy

I don’t mean to insult , but your entire demeanor towards myself and everyone here that has tried to coach/help you is defensive and angry

I’m done your on the ignore list best we go our separate ways - kindly refrain from further contact

 

[Nutopia1]

I did not say she pressured you , you pressured her for sex. You are confused

Little Italy ? Could it get any more unromantic ?
I’m not looking for a verbal slugfest - you did everything wrong , you are defensive and unwilling to listen

The tale of the tape is , you got to first base , kudos , you failed to engage her , failed to impress her beyond dinner , struck out when it came to intimacy

I don’t mean to insult , but your entire demeanor towards myself and everyone here that has tried to coach/help you is defensive and angry

I’m done your on the ignore list best we go our separate ways - kindly refrain from further contact

You obviously know nothing about Little Italy .
You may want to read Richard2918 post. Chock full of good technique and in tandem with my experience that night , unlike your all over the map conclusion jumping .

 

[mccovey]

Great thread . Fascinating and responses from some of my favorite members , namely Slim and the Chairmen . (Go Yanks , hurry up Judge !) . Nutopia , you showed her a nice time and she learned a little about life . You must be a super nice guy in that she was comfortable enough to spend extended time with you . Girls of that age have no clue regarding age ; likely in her eyes you could have been 48 , not 68 and that would make no difference anyway . An innocent girl of another culture ; interesting to learn of the dynamics of the culture . You took a shot , remained respectful , but she got spooked a bit . No harm , no foul . You did nothing wrong IMO . Hope you both had some cannoli in Little Italy !

 

[Nutopia1]

Great thread . Fascinating and responses from some of my favorite members , namely Slim and the Chairmen . (Go Yanks , hurry up Judge !) . Nutopia , you showed her a nice time and she learned a little about life . You must be a super nice guy in that she was comfortable enough to spend extended time with you . Girls of that age have no clue regarding age ; likely in her eyes you could have been 48 , not 68 and that would make no difference anyway . An innocent girl of another culture ; interesting to learn of the dynamics of the culture . You took a shot , remained respectful , but she got spooked a bit . No harm , no foul . You did nothing wrong IMO . Hope you both had some cannoli in Little Italy !

Yes went to the Cannoli King, Palermo cafe. Soon after enjoying her cannoli
I made the ill fated move and she bolted.

 

[richardp2918]

Yes went to the Cannoli King, Palermo cafe. Soon after enjoying her cannoli
I made the ill fated move and she bolted.

She left the gun, took the cannoli

 

[Cum Tzu]

Any new acquaintance needs to be tested. Before you jump in head first, body language is key. If she’s mimicking some of your moves, playing with her hair and good eye contact are all positive signs. Next comes the slight finger or hand touch. As you’re talking if she touches your arm or hand across the table, VERY GOOD SIGN. If not, you lightly touch her arm and hand, then pull back. Wait for a similar response as you talk. No reciprocation is not a good sign. Don‘t start buying loads of drinks thinking alcohol and time will persuade her.. Like a good poker player you got to fold them when you think you have a decent hand but the table is telling you something diffrecently.

 

[Uniquelyme]

I did not say she pressured you , you pressured her for sex. You are confused

Little Italy ? Could it get any more unromantic ?
I’m not looking for a verbal slugfest - you did everything wrong , you are defensive and unwilling to listen

The tale of the tape is , you got to first base , kudos , you failed to engage her , failed to impress her beyond dinner , struck out when it came to intimacy

I don’t mean to insult , but your entire demeanor towards myself and everyone here that has tried to coach/help you is defensive and angry

I’m done your on the ignore list best we go our separate ways - kindly refrain from further contact

I think you are being a bit much. Imo he never had a real shot. He said she never gave any signals. She was just enjoying time with and older Man. Like i said before 40+ years age difference is huge. Even 20 something years difference can be too much for some.

Asking her have you ever been with an older Man. Telling her he would like to please her. Isn't pressuring her, it's telling her his intentions. She just didnt view him that way.

When out with a lady. The Man makes a move doesn't ask her permission. She rejects him or doesn't. Or let's it go up to a certain point.

Myself i would have tried to build attraction and told her at the end of the date. Let's head back to my place for like you said a night cap. However chances are extraordinarily slim a 22 year old is going home with a 65+ year old without compensation. See below.

. At no point had she given any signals that this can go the next step. My little head prevails. I asked her if I can hold her hand. She got nervous and held out her hand as if to shake mine. Then I asked her if she's ever been with an older man before. She was getting uncomfortable as this seemed to be coming out on nowhere.
Then I said I'd like to take her home and please her..

 

[Retired032824]

I think you are being a bit much. Imo he never had a real shot. He said she never gave any signals. She was just enjoying time with and older Man. Like i said before 40+ years age difference is huge. Even 20 something years difference can be too much for some.

Asking her have you ever been with an older Man. Telling her he would like to please her. Isn't pressuring her, it's telling her his intentions. She just didnt view him that way.

When out with a lady. The Man makes a move doesn't ask her permission. She rejects him or doesn't. Or let's it go up to a certain point.

Myself i would have tried to build attraction and told her at the end of the date. Let's head back to my place for like you said a night cap. However chances are extraordinarily slim a 22 year old is going home with a 65+ year old without compensation. See below.

. At no point had she given any signals that this can go the next step. My little head prevails. I asked her if I can hold her hand. She got nervous and held out her hand as if to shake mine. Then I asked her if she's ever been with an older man before. She was getting uncomfortable as this seemed to be coming out on nowhere.
Then I said I'd like to take her home and please her..

So say you... IMHO he had a shot, however you, he and I disagree. A woman is not a possession. You cannot objectify, you ask permission. If a man is in tune, and as you say has no real chance, then just go and have a good time in her company. Have realistic expectations and go with nothing more in mind. I am truly done with this thread. Nice speaking with you

 

[Uniquelyme]

So say you... IMHO he had a shot, however you, he and I disagree. A woman is not a possession. You cannot objectify, you ask permission. If a man is in tune, and as you say has no real chance, then just go and have a good time in her company. Have realistic expectations and go with nothing more in mind. I am truly done with this thread. Nice speaking with you

You do you. I do very well with Women acting like a Man . Not asking permission. A Man is about action. I never in my life have asked permission. I go for it and most times i get the green light. The light turns red i stop and understand she is not on the same page.

 

[Retired032824]

You do you. I do very well with Women acting like a Man . Not asking permission. A Man is about action. I never in my life have asked permission. I go for it and most times i get the green light. The light turns red i stop and understand she is not on the same page.

So, respectfully, when was the last time you got it, without paying for it? Maybe you want to examine that? Today there are a lot of beautiful, high level, empowered women. I would ease back on the John Wayne pilgrim. Here is a news flash, women do not like being dragged by the hair into the cave, unless that is part of a one hour session lol. Make sense?

 

[Uniquelyme]

So, respectfully, when was the last time you got it, without paying for it? Maybe you want to examine that? Today there are a lot of beautiful, high level, empowered women. I would ease back on the John Wayne pilgrim. Here is a news flash, women do not like being dragged by the hair into the cave. Make sense?

Last night from my 23 yr old ex. Who i dumped. Today im seeing my 19 yr old sb for free.

This isn't a lifetime movie. Women still dig confidence and a Man who goes for what he wants.

 

[cutterman]

Hell, I 61 and banging a hot twenty something is fun, but they want the second round too fast for me.

 

[richardp2918]

So, respectfully, when was the last time you got it, without paying for it? Maybe you want to examine that? Today there are a lot of beautiful, high level, empowered women. I would ease back on the John Wayne pilgrim. Here is a news flash, women do not like being dragged by the hair into the cave, unless that is part of a one hour session lol. Make sense?

Last night from my 23 yr old ex. Who i dumped. Today im seeing my 19 yr old sb for free.

This isn't a lifetime movie. Women still dig confidence and a Man who goes for what he wants.

I agree with many points made by both of you (and disagree with a few) even when they are the opposite approach. there's a million ways to skin a cat and different approaches have pros and cons, depending on the situation and people involved.

my take is (1) it was low probability OP could have banged the girl, (2) it was still worth trying for fun, learning, and off chance it works, (3) giving it a shot is how OP will figure out his game.

I'm much more of a patient guy playing the long game now, but there was a time I used to jump into the lion's den and pull out girls surrounded by a pack of guys like I owned her. It worked bc I was a young, successful, and fit, and girls were into me more, guys assumed she was with me, and I was on top of the world.

I can't pull that off anymore bc I'm obviously older than the girl, the girl is less likely to go along or be intrigued by me, the guys wouldn't believe she was with me as I'm clearly out of her league age wise, etc etc...so I just changed my game.

the only thing I disagree with both of you on is that there's one approach. everybody needs to experiment and find their game

 

[Nutopia1]

Hell, I 61 and banging a hot twenty something is fun, but they want the second round too fast for me.

I have a thread for every situation concerning young pussy.
https://ampreviews.net/index.php?threads/red-boost.145634/page-2#post-1021127