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Scenario
- Thread starter BIGBOB62
- Start date
I’m curious if you prepay the tip, what you do if service is outstanding. Do you give her more, or catch her next time? I see the same girls frequently and one of the reasons I tip after, is so I can vary the tip based on how great the session is. I’ll fluctuate my tip up to 50 percent more for outstanding service.
I will suggest an approach that goes against the grain of many on this board. Give the girl that believes you shorted her $60 to cover the misunderstanding.
It is an overly generous amount for a $10 error that will stand out as an apology. Let her know that you incorrectly believed that she would not be shorted and that you now understand that you were wrong. It doesn't matter if you were wrong or not. Protecting your reputation is more important than the fees. Your total damage, from her perspective, is $300 between the services and the apology.
You never have to see that girl again. She will feel that she won that battle and this will allow her to save face. She performed all of your special request only to be shorted is the current storyline. You want the sullying of your good name to be reversed and the monetary apology should work. It will be important to tell MMS you made amends and covered your error. If you can hand it to the girl and apologize in front of MMS, even better.
The fact that MMS wants all fees up front means she believes you shorted the girl and she is trying to protect her own reputation with the girls. It is better to align with MMS so she can provide you with better talent in the future. It will also get MMS out of the middle of your sessions and you won't have to answer questions on the above average tips. Most importantly, you will avoid starting each session on a low-note as customer that can't be trusted. That labeling has greater reach in a spa wilderness than in a place with more choices. There is a limited pool of talent that makes the two hour trip from Flushing to your location. The girls talk and you don't want your supposed misdeeds echoed to each new girl that arrives in your area.
This is a problem that can be solved with a few extra dollars. It just requires a focus on your long-term goals for the spas in your area than on the cash to fix this.
It is an overly generous amount for a $10 error that will stand out as an apology. Let her know that you incorrectly believed that she would not be shorted and that you now understand that you were wrong. It doesn't matter if you were wrong or not. Protecting your reputation is more important than the fees. Your total damage, from her perspective, is $300 between the services and the apology.
You never have to see that girl again. She will feel that she won that battle and this will allow her to save face. She performed all of your special request only to be shorted is the current storyline. You want the sullying of your good name to be reversed and the monetary apology should work. It will be important to tell MMS you made amends and covered your error. If you can hand it to the girl and apologize in front of MMS, even better.
The fact that MMS wants all fees up front means she believes you shorted the girl and she is trying to protect her own reputation with the girls. It is better to align with MMS so she can provide you with better talent in the future. It will also get MMS out of the middle of your sessions and you won't have to answer questions on the above average tips. Most importantly, you will avoid starting each session on a low-note as customer that can't be trusted. That labeling has greater reach in a spa wilderness than in a place with more choices. There is a limited pool of talent that makes the two hour trip from Flushing to your location. The girls talk and you don't want your supposed misdeeds echoed to each new girl that arrives in your area.
This is a problem that can be solved with a few extra dollars. It just requires a focus on your long-term goals for the spas in your area than on the cash to fix this.
80 tip for a 1/2 R&T session is 100% over the normal fare in my area. 50% over standard fair has been my typical tip level up front.
I tend to trust the women because more often than not, they do a wonderful job. If they do not, I avoid them in the future.
I 100% agree with you. Life is too short so why worry about 10 bucks when you are spending 350 to 400 hundred.
I tend to trust the women because more often than not, they do a wonderful job. If they do not, I avoid them in the future.
I 100% agree with you. Life is too short so why worry about 10 bucks when you are spending 350 to 400 hundred.
I'm an agency/whorehouse guy much more than a R&T guy.
But I do frequent R&Ts as well.
I'll probably get in trouble here for saying this.
Where I live, there are 2 R&Ts I use more than the others. And there are many, many others.
One is 0.6 to the house.
The other is 0.7.
At the 0.6 house one, I tip 1.0. And I tip 0.9 at the other. And it is well known that the standard tip is 0.6.
Why do I do this?
2 reasons.
1) Way back when (waaay back) , we had a place in my area called Del Rio. It was South Americans girls. Was 1.5 for 30 mins. And I just can't see giving the Asians 1.2 (.6 house/.6 tip) for 60 mins when the latinas were 1.5 for half the time.
2) These ladies (IMO only) are just too old and not attractive enough for FS and I feel sorry for them. But they go all out on the "R", which is what I am primarily there for.
The "T" is simply the ending.
Am I driving the expectations up? I don't think so. And I don't care. I'll do what I think is right. Always.
But I do frequent R&Ts as well.
I'll probably get in trouble here for saying this.
Where I live, there are 2 R&Ts I use more than the others. And there are many, many others.
One is 0.6 to the house.
The other is 0.7.
At the 0.6 house one, I tip 1.0. And I tip 0.9 at the other. And it is well known that the standard tip is 0.6.
Why do I do this?
2 reasons.
1) Way back when (waaay back) , we had a place in my area called Del Rio. It was South Americans girls. Was 1.5 for 30 mins. And I just can't see giving the Asians 1.2 (.6 house/.6 tip) for 60 mins when the latinas were 1.5 for half the time.
2) These ladies (IMO only) are just too old and not attractive enough for FS and I feel sorry for them. But they go all out on the "R", which is what I am primarily there for.
The "T" is simply the ending.
Am I driving the expectations up? I don't think so. And I don't care. I'll do what I think is right. Always.
I'd have a couple comments -
1. We intersect a little in terms of zones (westchester and Manhattan) , but in my more local area (CT, Mass, RI) there are many girls who are still young and pretty enough to still demand premium prices (even in Manhattan) for FS, but choose not to (unless they want to). They're burned out, flying way below the immigration radar, whatever. Mostly working in very low profile spas, with no reviews preferred. But they like being out in the country, and they like choosing who they give FS to, not being forced to deliver the goods to every guy that walks in the door. Not every girl is solely motivated by maximizing their money making. There's other girls, still real hot, that are out here, because they want to own a spa, and its cheaper/easier to do here (or so they think).
2. Right or wrong, i rarely tip based on looks. i tip more based on services rendered and enthusiasm. I do consider looks when i decide where to go, or when i negotiate a rate at an indie or agency. but once i'm in the door at a spa, the tip is based on services rendered for me. It's much the same with me as tipping a waitress. i dont tip her on how she looks, i tip her on how efficiently smoothly and effectively she delivered the meal. There are limits of course. if she's so large I'm getting crushed when she rides me, or i have to roll her in flour and go for the wet spot, I'm going to deduct that 10 bucks that started this thread.
3. I think as a group- we're better tippers than the average. I hear plenty of stories which I believe from girls I see about guys that give 10 or 20 dollar tips for an hour massage with a HJ. Or guys that get upset because they cant get erect or come and tip 0. I've had nights where i come in and basically doubled or tripled the tips my girl got for the day even though she already worked 5-6 guys, because she was unlucky and there's a lot of cheap guys out there. Tipping is a lot less standard than you guys seem to talk about, at least where i monger.
1. We intersect a little in terms of zones (westchester and Manhattan) , but in my more local area (CT, Mass, RI) there are many girls who are still young and pretty enough to still demand premium prices (even in Manhattan) for FS, but choose not to (unless they want to). They're burned out, flying way below the immigration radar, whatever. Mostly working in very low profile spas, with no reviews preferred. But they like being out in the country, and they like choosing who they give FS to, not being forced to deliver the goods to every guy that walks in the door. Not every girl is solely motivated by maximizing their money making. There's other girls, still real hot, that are out here, because they want to own a spa, and its cheaper/easier to do here (or so they think).
2. Right or wrong, i rarely tip based on looks. i tip more based on services rendered and enthusiasm. I do consider looks when i decide where to go, or when i negotiate a rate at an indie or agency. but once i'm in the door at a spa, the tip is based on services rendered for me. It's much the same with me as tipping a waitress. i dont tip her on how she looks, i tip her on how efficiently smoothly and effectively she delivered the meal. There are limits of course. if she's so large I'm getting crushed when she rides me, or i have to roll her in flour and go for the wet spot, I'm going to deduct that 10 bucks that started this thread.
3. I think as a group- we're better tippers than the average. I hear plenty of stories which I believe from girls I see about guys that give 10 or 20 dollar tips for an hour massage with a HJ. Or guys that get upset because they cant get erect or come and tip 0. I've had nights where i come in and basically doubled or tripled the tips my girl got for the day even though she already worked 5-6 guys, because she was unlucky and there's a lot of cheap guys out there. Tipping is a lot less standard than you guys seem to talk about, at least where i monger.
I'd have a couple comments -
1. We intersect a little in terms of zones (westchester and Manhattan) , but in my more local area (CT, Mass, RI) there are many girls who are still young and pretty enough to still demand premium prices (even in Manhattan) for FS, but choose not to (unless they want to). They're burned out, flying way below the immigration radar, whatever. Mostly working in very low profile spas, with no reviews preferred. But they like being out in the country, and they like choosing who they give FS to, not being forced to deliver the goods to every guy that walks in the door. Not every girl is solely motivated by maximizing their money making. There's other girls, still real hot, that are out here, because they want to own a spa, and its cheaper/easier to do here (or so they think).
2. Right or wrong, i rarely tip based on looks. i tip more based on services rendered and enthusiasm. I do consider looks when i decide where to go, or when i negotiate a rate at an indie or agency. but once i'm in the door at a spa, the tip is based on services rendered for me. It's much the same with me as tipping a waitress. i dont tip her on how she looks, i tip her on how efficiently smoothly and effectively she delivered the meal. There are limits of course. if she's so large I'm getting crushed when she rides me, or i have to roll her in flour and go for the wet spot, I'm going to deduct that 10 bucks that started this thread.
3. I think as a group- we're better tippers than the average. I hear plenty of stories which I believe from girls I see about guys that give 10 or 20 dollar tips for an hour massage with a HJ. Or guys that get upset because they cant get erect or come and tip 0. I've had nights where i come in and basically doubled or tripled the tips my girl got for the day even though she already worked 5-6 guys, because she was unlucky and there's a lot of cheap guys out there. Tipping is a lot less standard than you guys seem to talk about, at least where i monger.
1. We intersect a little in terms of zones (westchester and Manhattan) , but in my more local area (CT, Mass, RI) there are many girls who are still young and pretty enough to still demand premium prices (even in Manhattan) for FS, but choose not to (unless they want to). They're burned out, flying way below the immigration radar, whatever. Mostly working in very low profile spas, with no reviews preferred. But they like being out in the country, and they like choosing who they give FS to, not being forced to deliver the goods to every guy that walks in the door. Not every girl is solely motivated by maximizing their money making. There's other girls, still real hot, that are out here, because they want to own a spa, and its cheaper/easier to do here (or so they think).
2. Right or wrong, i rarely tip based on looks. i tip more based on services rendered and enthusiasm. I do consider looks when i decide where to go, or when i negotiate a rate at an indie or agency. but once i'm in the door at a spa, the tip is based on services rendered for me. It's much the same with me as tipping a waitress. i dont tip her on how she looks, i tip her on how efficiently smoothly and effectively she delivered the meal. There are limits of course. if she's so large I'm getting crushed when she rides me, or i have to roll her in flour and go for the wet spot, I'm going to deduct that 10 bucks that started this thread.
3. I think as a group- we're better tippers than the average. I hear plenty of stories which I believe from girls I see about guys that give 10 or 20 dollar tips for an hour massage with a HJ. Or guys that get upset because they cant get erect or come and tip 0. I've had nights where i come in and basically doubled or tripled the tips my girl got for the day even though she already worked 5-6 guys, because she was unlucky and there's a lot of cheap guys out there. Tipping is a lot less standard than you guys seem to talk about, at least where i monger.
That's one of the places i was talking about, where I've shown up at night and heard tales from the ladies about a string of deadbeats. Its a crime, those are good women there who care about doing a good job.
And fyi - it was not the place where this original event happened. The bagel and Spa shop is one of my favorite spots, with a girl who is in my lifetime top 2. And i dont care if she's getting old, she's still a blast to hang out with. It does kill me to hear about guys stiffing or shorting her on tips, because i know she always tries hard, and i know her shoulder/back is hurting again from 25 years of doing this....
And fyi - it was not the place where this original event happened. The bagel and Spa shop is one of my favorite spots, with a girl who is in my lifetime top 2. And i dont care if she's getting old, she's still a blast to hang out with. It does kill me to hear about guys stiffing or shorting her on tips, because i know she always tries hard, and i know her shoulder/back is hurting again from 25 years of doing this....
I tip up front when I see a girl for the first time at a slightly higher rate based on some info ahead of time. I think it helps set my expectations and most times it pays off. If I like them, I will try to establsh a good repeat connection. I think many girls appreciate that as much or more than an extra 20 at the end.
If they do not meet my expectations, I never worry about the extra upfront tip. I just don't see them again.
If they do not meet my expectations, I never worry about the extra upfront tip. I just don't see them again.
Ditto to what you said. Been there and never went back.
What is the difference between them shorting you on your change or shorting you on your time?
We are not beggars showing up by accident, throwing cash at them in hopes that they like us for a few minutes, and if not, oh woe is me. This is a transaction of money, emotions for some, and time.
What is the difference between them shorting you on your change or shorting you on your time?
We are not beggars showing up by accident, throwing cash at them in hopes that they like us for a few minutes, and if not, oh woe is me. This is a transaction of money, emotions for some, and time.
True @Spa123, that was one of my posted concerns, what'll be comfort level after this episode. MMS and provider work together and should make for some interesting convo or it might be that they have experienced this before and it's business as usual for them. The customer on the other hand...........
Except per the OP, the girls come and go at this spa, but the MMS sticks around. And it's one of his closest spas, in an area where there aren;y many spas. So, while there's an understanding that the girl was shorted, most likely due to the MMS's actions, the OP may overlook this one time, and just give exact change to the House going forward. Like he said, out where he is, the MMS's all talk about the customers, and getting a bad rep over $10 may not be worth it.
I'm going in tonight. talked to the MMS some on Kk, and found out that the girl told the mms that she was shorted, but she didnt say it was over the $10 change. MMS actually thought the real number was a lot higher.
I still like the advice though about trying to save face for everyone, and i'm still bringing a bottle for the mms and try to smooth things out. As to the original girl, i dont know. wont see her tonight.
I still like the advice though about trying to save face for everyone, and i'm still bringing a bottle for the mms and try to smooth things out. As to the original girl, i dont know. wont see her tonight.
It's not about the 10 or 20 bucks. It's about the mms telling you "that this time I’ll need to check in with mms, discuss services, and prepay." Without some effort from the mms to make amends, I just wouldn't want to patronize that place.
Just for some perspective on how a regular customer should be treated...At two different spas, I'd forgotten to pay the HF when I left. I'd given my tip at the end, but forgot I hadn't paid the HF beforehand. In both cases, the session was done by the mamasan/owner. (I'm not 100% sure the 2nd one was/is the owner.) I was a regular customer of both spas. Neither woman said a word about the underpayment as I left. In one case, I was just 10 minutes away when I realized my mistake. In the other case, I was already home. In both cases, I offered to drive back immediately to pay the HF. (both spas were about 30 minutes from home.) Both women said not to worry about it, I could just pay them next time I was there. That was at least 5 years ago, and I'm still a regular customer of both those women. (one's Korean and one's Chinese) Your mms could use some instruction on customer relations!
Just for some perspective on how a regular customer should be treated...At two different spas, I'd forgotten to pay the HF when I left. I'd given my tip at the end, but forgot I hadn't paid the HF beforehand. In both cases, the session was done by the mamasan/owner. (I'm not 100% sure the 2nd one was/is the owner.) I was a regular customer of both spas. Neither woman said a word about the underpayment as I left. In one case, I was just 10 minutes away when I realized my mistake. In the other case, I was already home. In both cases, I offered to drive back immediately to pay the HF. (both spas were about 30 minutes from home.) Both women said not to worry about it, I could just pay them next time I was there. That was at least 5 years ago, and I'm still a regular customer of both those women. (one's Korean and one's Chinese) Your mms could use some instruction on customer relations!
Has a MMS ever turned away a customer? Doubt it. They probably still welcome the cheepo bastards they complain about. When you Tip generous and more than accordingly it’s annoying when they pull the $10 sneak. Lots of places do it. It’s not about the $10 It’s about dishonesty and the feeling of getting manipulated or taken advantage of.