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Privacy Rights

njlefty

Registered Member
Messages: 2,418
Reviews: 5
Joined
#1
When any of us visit a spa that has been approved for operation by a community and is a public place, we have an expectation of privacy. In no way should any of us, or the masseuses, be filmed inside or outside a public place WITHOUT OUR PERMISSION.

I don't give a shit what some two-bit judge in Florida approved, but filming like this is a violation of our rights to privacy and to be "secure in our person" as written in the Constitution.

This is a legal pushback, filed yesterday, against these violations.......

A Martin County law firm has filed two emergency petitions looking to block the release of videotapes and customer lists involving several massage spas accused of human trafficking and prostitution last week.

Five day spas were targeted as a part of the investigation: Cove Day Spa and Therapy Spa in Stuart, Bridge Day Spa and Sequoia Apple Day Spa in Hobe Sound, and Orchids of Asia Day Spa in Jupiter.

According to Martin County Sheriff William Snyder, investigators uncovered about 100 “johns”, or end-users, who benefited from the “graphic sexual acts”.

In their petitions, attorneys Richard Kibbey and Jordan Wagner note the case has drawn national press coverage, in part because of the arrest of Patriots owner Robert Kraft, "and commentary on this case is at frenzied levels."

The Martin County Sheriff’s Office and the Jupiter Police Department has said they have photos, videotapes, and audio recordings of the "johns" allegedly engaging in sexual acts with the spa’s masseuses while receiving massages or other spa treatments.

The attorneys argue "neither the masseuse nor the Plaintiffs knew they were being recorded by law enforcement and no consent to this videotaping was given; either implicitly or expressly by either the masseuse or the Plaintiffs," adding "The Plaintiffs had no reason to suspect much less and believe the masseuses were in any way forced into giving any spa treatment."

They are asking for an emergency hearing in both Martin County and Palm Beach County so law enforcement and state attorney offices would be prohibited from:

a. Releasing any photo, video, and/or audio recordings taken during the “Massage Parlor Sting” investigation to any third party regardless of whether or not the individual has been arrested, except to the individual’s attorney; and

b. Releasing any document which contains the name of an individual not arrested or making any public statement which would reveal a customer’s identifying information until that customer is arrested or a warrant has been issued for an alleged crime that occurred at the massage parlors in question.

This legal action was deemed necessary, according to Senior Partner Richard Kibbey, "To protect the privacy rights of spa customers, who may be the victims of illegal videotapings, or who would be otherwise irreparably harmed by the release of such personal information by the police or the prosecutor. We are seeking judicial intervention to determine what evidence is permitted to be released and to whom it should be released to."
 

bosco94

Registered Member
Messages: 43
Reviews: 6
Joined
#2
The whole thing is incredibly shady. If they really were concerned with "human trafficking" then why allow the places to remain open while they filmed dozens of encounters? Literally all it takes is one to close the place and bring charges.

It's almost as though they were like "yeah slavery blah blah blah, but also lets find some famous people in this sting and get re-elected!"
 

Ellocohombre

Review Contributor
Messages: 7,179
Reviews: 51
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#3
Are you kidding our 4th Amendment rights have been ripped apart by this place we call 'Home Of The Free'. And then along come the fuckin Patriot Act to make it even worse.
For God's sake there is a fucking camera in three quarters of the traffic lights in this country. The police have license plate readers that run every plate that drives past. Yea let's talk 'Secure In Your Person Place and Things'
 

Ripple65

Review Contributor
Messages: 1,657
Reviews: 63
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#4
What is the motive of the law firm to file the motion? Is it maybe to generate some business from the men that were caught ? Heard a quick blurb last night on the radio some of the women were not trafficked, the investigation is continuing.
 

njlefty

Registered Member
Messages: 2,418
Reviews: 5
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#5
Are you kidding our 4th Amendment rights have been ripped apart by this place we call 'Home Of The Free'. And then along come the fuckin Patriot Act to make it even worse.
For God's sake there is a fucking camera in three quarters of the traffic lights in this country. The police have license plate readers that run every plate that drives past. Yea let's talk 'Secure In Your Person Place and Things'
I absolutely agree. My point was they are chipping away continuously and now it has affected the AMP world, much to our personal detriment here.

Every police jurisdiction in the United States may want to try taping now, if they can pull it off, because they can arrest the guys rather than just the women.
 

Dc46

Review Contributor
Messages: 1,500
Reviews: 29
Joined
#6
I absolutely agree. My point was they are chipping away continuously and now it has affected the AMP world, much to our personal detriment here.

Every police jurisdiction in the United States may want to try taping now, if they can pull it off, because they can arrest the guys rather than just the women.
This is like the police arresting just the drug users instead of the drug dealers and so on up.

You stop the guys going to the amp you shut down the amps.

You guy realized you are being filmed in public all the time. From red light camera, security camera’s, to ATM camera, to now Ring door bells.

Meaning the cops can pull from any camera to pull your whereabouts if they think you are involved in a crime.

The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. It prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. In addition, it sets requirements for issuing warrants: warrants must be issued by a judge or magistrate, justified by probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and must particularly describe the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.

Seems to me from Rubmaps and their own investigation they had the probable cause they needed to get a judge to sign off on.
 

njlefty

Registered Member
Messages: 2,418
Reviews: 5
Joined
#7
This is like the police arresting just the drug users instead of the drug dealers and so on up.

You stop the guys going to the amp you shut down the amps.

You guy realized you are being filmed in public all the time. From red light camera, security camera’s, to ATM camera, to now Ring door bells.

Meaning the cops can pull from any camera to pull your whereabouts if they think you are involved in a crime.

The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. It prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. In addition, it sets requirements for issuing warrants: warrants must be issued by a judge or magistrate, justified by probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and must particularly describe the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.

Seems to me from Rubmaps and their own investigation they had the probable cause they needed to get a judge to sign off on.
In many years of going to AMPs, and also surviving a trafficking raid, one thing that has pissed off police is that the majority of their AMP efforts only end up arresting the females and sometimes the owner. You don't see many AMP raids where customers are arrested. The cops want to get the guys, not the gals, and that has been difficult unless there is, like in the Kraft case, videotaping.
 

Dc46

Review Contributor
Messages: 1,500
Reviews: 29
Joined
#8
In many years of going to AMPs, and also surviving a trafficking raid, one thing that has pissed off police is that the majority of their AMP efforts only end up arresting the females and sometimes the owner. You don't see many AMP raids where customers are arrested. The cops want to get the guys, not the gals, and that has been difficult unless there is, like in the Kraft case, videotaping.
And to the police that way hasn’t yielded the results they wanted. They close down but reopen later under another name and different location.

You stop or scare enough guys that it isn’t safe and amp’s will shut down.

It’s why I gave the drug user and drug dealer analogy. They are going after the user not the the suppliers now. And they got a huge fish to fry and another 170 guys.
 

njlefty

Registered Member
Messages: 2,418
Reviews: 5
Joined
#9
And to the police that way hasn’t yielded the results they wanted. They close down but reopen later under another name and different location.

You stop or scare enough guys that it isn’t safe and amp’s will shut down.

It’s why I gave the drug user and drug dealer analogy. They are going after the user not the the suppliers now. And they got a huge fish to fry and another 170 guys.
I think these more recent efforts are making things difficult for us. In Fresno, CA the police raided an AMP and shut it down. A few days later, they reopened it with two female detectives of Asian descent acting as masseuses. About 15 guys got pinched before word spread that the place was being run by cops.
 

Hardrobert

Review Contributor
Messages: 535
Reviews: 6
Joined
#10
In many years of going to AMPs, and also surviving a trafficking raid, one thing that has pissed off police is that the majority of their AMP efforts only end up arresting the females and sometimes the owner. You don't see many AMP raids where customers are arrested. The cops want to get the guys, not the gals, and that has been difficult unless there is, like in the Kraft case, videotaping.
The underlying question though is why do they want to get the guys? Because it is the law? Why is it the law? Come on, why d we make it illegal for an individual to receive a form of gratification when paying money for it? I pay money for theatre. music, sports. I pay money for a fine restaurant meal - oh my gawd - a form of oral gratification - lets make it illegal. What if the massage parlor was run by male masseurs and catered to women, and at the end of the rub fingers, or vibrators, or a tongue was used to provide a release to the woman? (it would be illegal) But bet we wouldn't hear the screaming.
 

jfox987

Review Contributor
Messages: 503
Reviews: 51
Joined
#11
In many years of going to AMPs, and also surviving a trafficking raid, one thing that has pissed off police is that the majority of their AMP efforts only end up arresting the females and sometimes the owner. You don't see many AMP raids where customers are arrested. The cops want to get the guys, not the gals, and that has been difficult unless there is, like in the Kraft case, videotaping.
i heard 170 men were arrested in this sting. were all 170 on tape? otherwise how were they arrested then?
 

straightshooter

Registered Member
Messages: 148
Reviews: 7
Joined
#14
The underlying question though is why do they want to get the guys? Because it is the law? Why is it the law? Come on, why d we make it illegal for an individual to receive a form of gratification when paying money for it? I pay money for theatre. music, sports. I pay money for a fine restaurant meal - oh my gawd - a form of oral gratification - lets make it illegal. What if the massage parlor was run by male masseurs and catered to women, and at the end of the rub fingers, or vibrators, or a tongue was used to provide a release to the woman? (it would be illegal) But bet we wouldn't hear the screaming.
Maybe the law should be changed, legalize it already, they can't stamp it out after all these years- NY is looking at legalization-
http://gothamist.com/2019/02/25/decriminalize_sex_work_nyc.php
 

njlefty

Registered Member
Messages: 2,418
Reviews: 5
Joined
#15
The cop report says there wasn't any sound recording. So how do they know there were any discussions about ''soliciting''? Aren't they just guessing? Will that stand up in court?
Interesting. I thought they would need sound in order to prove in court that an agreement was made on sex in exchange for money.

I am not a lawyer, but unless the masseuse admits she took money from Kraft for oral sex, then the tip he gave her was for the massage and the oral sex had no money tied to it. Charges tossed.

God, this country is so fucked up with its obsession with people having a good time in private.
 

Dc46

Review Contributor
Messages: 1,500
Reviews: 29
Joined
#17
Interesting. I thought they would need sound in order to prove in court that an agreement was made on sex in exchange for money.

I am not a lawyer, but unless the masseuse admits she took money from Kraft for oral sex, then the tip he gave her was for the massage and the oral sex had no money tied to it. Charges tossed.

God, this country is so fucked up with its obsession with people having a good time in private.
Solicitation
Solicitation occurs whenever a person uses words, actions, or any type of conduct in an attempt to engage in an act of prostitution. The law does not require you to actually engage in the intended conduct, and anyone who simply offers to engage in sex for money -- or any other kind of compensation -- has committed solicitation of prostitution. However, the solicitation actions must go beyond simple displays, availability, or common communications. You must openly seek to engage in prostitution in order to be convicted of solicitation of prostitution. Solicitation can also mean any overt attempt to entice or induce another person to commit prostitution.
Specific Intent
Solicitation of prostitution is a specific intent crime. This means that in order to convict an offender, the prosecution must show the offender made a serious attempt to engage in prostitution by either offering money for sexual acts or providing sex acts for compensation. You cannot be convicted of solicitation if you only make an offer as a joke or without any intent to ever follow through with either making a payment or providing sexual acts. Specific intent is typically proven by the circumstances surrounding the case. For example, an offer to pay cash for sexual acts is typically enough to prove solicitation.
Specific Offer
Courts have held that a prosecutor does not have to show that a specific offer to engage in prostitution occurred. It's enough, for example, for a person to list prices for different acts, or for the two people to negotiate a price. It also doesn't matter who makes the first move. Anyone who makes an offer can be convicted of solicitation, as can anyone who chooses to start negotiating prices.
 

Dc46

Review Contributor
Messages: 1,500
Reviews: 29
Joined
#19
This why the state police had government agencies with them.

Federal prostitution laws apply when prostitution involves a non-citizen alien or crosses international or state boundaries. Under Federal law, the importation of people for the purposes of prostitution is illegal and considered a form of human trafficking prohibited by federal code and the 13th Amendment of US Constitution


Florida Statutes Sections 796.001-796.09Elements
Florida sets criminal charges for a number of offenses related to prostitution. It is unlawful to participate in prostitution itself. The state also prohibits assignations, which are meetings or appointments arranged for the purpose of prostitution. State law also forbids solicitation -- acts to persuade or convince another person to participate in prostitution -- and the purchase of prostitution services.
State law also criminalizes the operation of a service offering prostitution and the availability of a building or other premises for prostitution. In addition, Florida prohibits procurement, also known as pandering and more commonly known as "pimping," during which an individual persuades or hires another person to engage in prostitution, or offers prostitution services performed by another person.
 

Salty Vet

Registered Member
Messages: 160
Reviews: 12
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#20
Welcome to the new world order.
Then FBI/ DOJ discussed/ planned wearing a recording device to trap the President. The President and I do not care who that President is.
No one was arrested/ perpwalked/ raided for that effort.
We don’t stand a chance. They can ruin you any time they wish to.
Wait till they take your 2nd amendment away because of an Amp bust.
The shit will hit the fan eventually,
Our rights were born in bloodshed and defended in bloodshed.
Freedom is not free.
 
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