Ok, Boomer

[Srhsrh]

If I drove an E car from Houston to San Antonio, approximately 200 miles one way, takes 3 hours to arrive, I can stop along the way if needed or fuel up when I arrive, an E car would cause me to stop along the way and plug in, 30 minutes or more just to get there, I don’t recall seeing charging stations along the way, maybe the Bucee’s along the way may have them or I suspect would be first to offer charging stations, this becomes a problem seeing I’d have to start planning to take longer just to get from point a to point b, it only takes a few minutes to gas up as opposed to plug in. What if I were driving further? Or to my house out in the country, small town located nearby with only one gas station, I know I haven’t seen any charging stations out in the boon docks, no massage parlors either for that matter. Until or if things change and offer more charging stations I wouldn’t even consider an E car.

there's plenty of them in Texas.
https://chargehub.com/en/charging-stations-map.html
But i agree its not really practical yet for long distance. the compelling model right now is for people that can afford 2 cars in their family and can keep one just around town.
I've always assumed that eventually the batteries will be modularized and then a system like those Liquid Propane tank rental will come online, where they just swap your battery pack with a fresh charged one.

you've got a good angle though. if spa's were to put in charging stations you'd have a nice reason to stop for an hour or so, halfway home.

 

[krideynyc]

1. There is not even close to enough renewable energy (including solar & wind) to power the grid for current demand. So how is there going to be enough when we add electric cars in every garage to the load? Plus, we all know that solar and wind are not reliable in term of output.

While it is true that solar and wind are weather dependent, the fact is what you get from them is used by the house first, and if you need more, then you buy from the grid. So if every house had alternative energy and an EV, the electricity used to charge it will only come from the grid if there's not enough power stored in the power cells for the house. If anything, this example decreases demand on the grid for power.

4. No one knows for sure WHERE oil comes from (no everyone agrees its "dinosaur bones"). And every week seems to bring some big new discovery. We are nowhere near running out.

Everyone agrees that its carbon based. Which means it came from some living thing once. I personally think it's all the plant matter. Especially if you think about how much leaves a tree makes each year.

 

[mikemendez]

My buddy told me the Model 3 Tesla goes 300 miles between charges.

That is not too bad. I think my gas sedan does about 450 miles between fill ups.

He probably has to allow it to charge for a much longer time after 300.

 

[krideynyc]

I've always assumed that eventually the batteries will be modularized and then a system like those Liquid Propane tank rental will come online, where they just swap your battery pack with a fresh charged one.

The solution for long distance is in the new EV models. Regenerative cycles. Where you can charge the battery while you drive. Currently it's mostly when braking, but they're working on alternators that can charge the whole battery bank. Problem is we still don't really understand how alternators work.

 

[njlefty]

While it is true that solar and wind are weather dependent, the fact is what you get from them is used by the house first, and if you need more, then you buy from the grid. So if every house had alternative energy and an EV, the electricity used to charge it will only come from the grid if there's not enough power stored in the power cells for the house. If anything, this example decreases demand on the grid for power.

Everyone agrees that its carbon based. Which means it came from some living thing once. I personally think it's all the plant matter. Especially if you think about how much leaves a tree makes each year.

I also tend to think it is plant matter like leaves or other flora.

Maybe dinosaurs mixed in, but damn, there seems too much oil shale in North Dakota to be only dinosaur remains.

 

[Koondog]

3k gas per year? You must do lots of driving and buy the more expensive fuel, are you admitting that you own a battery car? If you do drive a lot you’re going to find yourself pretty inconvenienced waiting for a charge. I drive a double cab truck at least 5/6 days out of the week, I don’t spend quite that much on fuel.

Yeah really. I can't see most people having to spend much more than 1.5k on gas a year. I'm about $1,300 a year and do a lot of driving.

 

[Srhsrh]

A couple of things:
1. There is not even close to enough renewable energy (including solar & wind) to power the grid for current demand. So how is there going to be enough when we add electric cars in every garage to the load? Plus, we all know that solar and wind are not reliable in term of output.
2. Solar is not free. You had to pay for it. And someone has to pay for the panels and they, of course, require maintenance. Over a decade ago, I had a contractor try to sell me on solar. The breakeven point was 20 years, assuming things went as projected (which they never quite do). I said thanks but no thanks. Solar has probably gotten more efficient by now, but I would still assume at least a decade to break even. If memory serves, you live in CT which probably is comparable to PA in terms of climate.
3. So, I'd like to see some actual research on the ability of solar to handle the increased grid load. Otherwise, its just so much wishful thinking.
4. No one knows for sure WHERE oil comes from (no everyone agrees its "dinosaur bones"). And every week seems to bring some big new discovery. We are nowhere near running out.

1. of course not. but things change over time. and no, we dont all know that. offshore wind has been very reliable, proven so since sailing ships. But anyway its just a piece of the puzzle.
2. my payback was 5 years. I already said that. A decade ago was too long ago, you should price it again.
3. again its just a piece of the puzzle. i didnt represent solar to be the solution to all energy.
4. I was kidding around about dinosaur bones. kinda of an homage to all the guys here willing to risk their kids future by ignoring climate change.

 

[VJLUTZ]

Everyone agrees that its carbon based. Which means it came from some living thing once. I personally think it's all the plant matter. Especially if you think about how much leaves a tree makes each year.

Well, obviously not "everyone" believes it if there are competing theories and conflicting evidence. I really don't know enough about to take a side, but I've been seen persistent articles on the Abiotic theory for a long time now.

http://www.petroleum.co.uk/abiotic-oil-formation

Which brings me to another point. There are plenty of examples in science where the vast majority believe one thing and then it turns out not be true. Which is one problem with supposed "consensus" in science: that is, it almost ever really exists. And that is actually a good thing. Competing theories are the norm, not the exception. When proponents of a theory feel the need to demonize and silence the opposition, it should make everyone's bullshit detector go off.

Which is why I think the supposed "consensus" on Global Warming is just so much horseshit. Until the GW proponents can come up with reliable, validated models (ones that yield repeatable, verifiable results), it's all just mental masturbation. Or maybe a bought & paid for HE at an AMP. As I said earlier, I lost track of the number of hysterical predictions attributed to GW long ago. Just waiting for one to come true. I'm sure any day now, those ice caps will melt. [/s]

 

[Koondog]

Some of you wealthy guys crack me up. You have your own companies, rolling in dough--- probably making millions a year and you can't cough up a measly 3k chump change for gas per year lol.

 

[Koondog]

1. of course not. but things change over time. and no, we dont all know that. offshore wind has been very reliable, proven so since sailing ships. But anyway its just a piece of the puzzle.
2. my payback was 5 years. I already said that. A decade ago was too long ago, you should price it again.
3. again its just a piece of the puzzle. i didnt represent solar to be the solution to all energy.
4. I was kidding around about dinosaur bones. kinda of an homage to all the guys here willing to risk their kids future by ignoring climate change.

"kinda of an homage to all the guys here willing to risk their kids future by ignoring climate change."

No alarmism there, no sir. lol

 

[krideynyc]

Well, obviously not "everyone" believes it if there are competing theories and conflicting evidene. I really don't know enough about to take a side, but I've been seen persistent articles on the Abiotic theory for a long time now.

http://www.petroleum.co.uk/abiotic-oil-formation

Abiotic still believes in it as carbon based.

Which brings me to another point. There are plenty of examples in science where the vast majority believe on thing and then it turns out not be true. Which is one problem with supposed "consensus" in science: that is, it almost ever really exists. And that is actually a good thing. Competing theories are the norm, not the exception. When proponents of theory feel the need to demonize and silence the opposition, it should make everyone's bullshit detector go off.

Which is why I think the supposed "consensus" on Global Warming is just so much horseshit. Until the GW proponents can come up with reliable, validated models (ones that yield repeatable, verifiable results), it's all just mental masturbation. Or maybe a bought & paid for HE at an AMP. As I said earlier, I lost track of the number of hysterical predictions attributed to GW long ago. Just waiting for one to come true. I'm sure any day now, those ice caps will melt. [/s]

I agree. Science by definition doesn't know everything. The standard OP is to test theories until the answer is found. As for the answers found later to be false, that happens. But they only occur based on the previously tested theories that came before it. And as I've said earlier, the scientific community isn't as cohesive as people tend to think.

 

[TGBeldin]

If I drove an E car from Houston to San Antonio, approximately 200 miles one way, takes 3 hours to arrive, I can stop along the way if needed or fuel up when I arrive, an E car would cause me to stop along the way and plug in, 30 minutes or more just to get there, I don’t recall seeing charging stations along the way, maybe the Bucee’s along the way may have them or I suspect would be first to offer charging stations, this becomes a problem seeing I’d have to start planning to take longer just to get from point a to point b, it only takes a few minutes to gas up as opposed to plug in. What if I were driving further? Or to my house out in the country, small town located nearby with only one gas station, I know I haven’t seen any charging stations out in the boon docks, no massage parlors either for that matter. Until or if things change and offer more charging stations I wouldn’t even consider an E car.

Right now they are not practical in all places, and for all uses. I am not sure gas cars will go away any time while I am alive. I do expect electric car numbers will increase, especially in relatively urban commuting areas.

 

[charliebrown]

Transportation efficiencies for time and energy will only occur when we rejuvenate the public transportation industry. If we go back 75 years, we would see a wonderful public transportation system in the major cities that was run off electric and on rail. It spanned from trolleys going down residential streets to regional rails interconnecting towns and cities. Delivery trucks were DC motors with lead acid batteries.

We may be working on more efficient and cleaner automobiles, but the societies that overly depend on automotive transportation over public transportation will be a less efficient society.

I was reading about the younger generation all gravitating toward the city. They are enjoying the ability to walk to work, dinner, entertainment, friends and sacrifice family time with there old stubborn Boomer parents who live in a house entirely too large, pay ridiculous taxes and continue to be a slave to the automobiles.

My wife and I currently have short commutes to our jobs. When the jobs are finished, I am absolutely moving away from this suburban sprawl. It truly is the ultimate was of resources.

 

[Koondog]

Abiotic still believes in it as carbon based.

I agree. Science by definition doesn't know everything. The standard OP is to test theories until the answer is found. As for the answers found later to be false, that happens. But they only occur based on the previously tested theories that came before it. And as I've said earlier, the scientific community isn't as cohesive as people tend to think.

Then you disagree with Beldin who insists this is all settled science.

 

[krideynyc]

Then you disagree with Beldin who insists this is all settled science.

He didn't say that. I agree with what he said. It's the same thing as I've already said. The data points to recent human activity as having caused changes to the weather patterns, and that has resulted in shifts in the climate. No one has ever said it was proven.

 

[njlefty]

Transportation efficiencies for time and energy will only occur when we rejuvenate the public transportation industry. If we go back 75 years, we would see a wonderful public transportation system in the major cities that was run off electric and on rail. It spanned from trolleys going down residential streets to regional rails interconnecting towns and cities. Delivery trucks were DC motors with lead acid batteries.

We may be working on more efficient and cleaner automobiles, but the societies that overly depend on automotive transportation over public transportation will be a less efficient society.

I was reading about the younger generation all gravitating toward the city. They are enjoying the ability to walk to work, dinner, entertainment, friends and sacrifice family time with there old stubborn Boomer parents who live in a house entirely too large, pay ridiculous taxes and continue to be a slave to the automobiles.

My wife and I currently have short commutes to our jobs. When the jobs are finished, I am absolutely moving away from this suburban sprawl. It truly is the ultimate was of resources.

This makes a lot of sense. The younger people I know starting out in the workforce all love the city life.

 

[charliebrown]

Right now they are not practical in all places, and for all uses. I am not sure gas cars will go away any time while I am alive. I do expect electric car numbers will increase, especially in relatively urban commuting areas.

Don't worry, the rage with increase with time, the charging times will decrease with time.
Electric cars will reduce manufacturing cost, maintenance cost and from the early indicators of Tesla, the car life may actually be going up as well.

Economics are actually there for electric cars at this point. I will buy one when I have drained all of the economic value out of my existing car.

 

[Koondog]

He didn't say that. I agree with what he said. It's the same thing as I've already said. The data points to recent human activity as having caused changes to the weather patterns, and that has resulted in shifts in the climate. No one has ever said it was proven.

Funny, I'm getting a lot of shit for saying essential the same thing---none of this has been proven.

 

[AutomaticSlim]

Yeah really. I can't see most people having to spend much more than 1.5k on gas a year. I'm about $1,300 a year and do a lot of driving.

TBH, not sure how much I spend on gas.
But I can tell you this.
I Spend A LOT more than I did prior to the NYC K-AMP busts in 2016.
What with all that driving to Jersey I do now.
But....with that said...my gas bill is absolutely lower since June.
No more drives to Edison for me.
I did that for one girl and one girl only.
Man...why am I craving a C&C Cola right about now?

 

[TGBeldin]

Don't worry, the rage with increase with time, the charging times will decrease with time.
Electric cars will reduce manufacturing cost, maintenance cost and from the early indicators of Tesla, the car life may actually be going up as well.

Economics are actually there for electric cars at this point. I will buy one when I have drained all of the economic value out of my existing car.

I believe those trends, but I like you am in no rush to trade in either of my cars. They are just getting broken in at 150K. When the time comes I will take a serious look and see how the landscape looks. I have several friends who have bought them and their rivals after a couple years they all seem positive.