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411 Danna @BGC

darkwingbuck

Call me rocket; truth > lies, bros > pros
Messages: 986
Joined
#21
You are right. It's a repeat, mostly because of the repeating "Damned if I'm going to give the orgs my sacred picture IDs" Guess what, you've already been violated in countless ways. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference witholding this info (they do let you blank out key stuff), but it's the monger being anonymous is a risk for the providers. It's providers who are more likely to actually get violated by anonymous males. Sorry, another repeat, same reason young women are told not to hitch hike alone.
I'm repeating because it's an important risk concept both to orgs, providers, and mongers.
There are multiple reasons for NOT giving out an ID, as well.

First, even if you "blank out key info", it's pii where you can be easily identifiable. If you have to leave your first and last name, you might as well have provided them your LinkedIn.


If you only provided the first name, but your first name is relatively unique, it's pretty much the same thing.


Here's the tough part. You could (and many are) be blacklisted for writing truthful negative reviews on these kind of forums. You were in the right, but you got BLd. If you never sent an ID, they don't have a good pic of you on file. Sure, they might take a pic of you anyway through the peephole but since 2020 masks do an excellent job of preventing people from taking pics of your mug, especially if you couple them with a hat.


Of course, discerning between "legit" BL and non-legit BL is not easy, and bad actors would probably exploit this, but I personally would never give any pii info to an org.
 

Pecker_wood

Bonerhope, Pay4, Pete2, thomasbird, Ppipe, homas
Messages: 518
Reviews: 16
Joined
#22
To ask the question again do you use a burner phone? I still haven't gotten an answer.

The point is we all have varying degrees of anonymity depending on how much effort, motivation someone needs to out us.

Hiding key things on DL, like address, first, last name is mostly to make monger feel less violated, and make it more difficult to get outed. Any experienced decoder with access to databases, like DL, telephone lookup, etc. can figure out who you are.

But driving this paranoia is the fear that someone or group is out to get me outed. These might be LE, or anti-prostition shamers, etc. Except for anonymous hackers doing this, it would result in lawsuits. LE won't divulge without indictments. The reality is there is an unavoidable risk of getting outed if you''re monger, mostly it's from ones own stupidity or carelessness. Guys have been sneaking nooky as long as women have been selling it.

Yeah, I believe orgs black list bad reviews. That's just good business. If you are bad mouthing our product, we don't want you using it. Which is why I always write specific constructive reviews that help match monger with provider.

But mostly I only think it's tracking the bad mongers who probably should be blacklisted. If a monger angryly disses providers in reviews, them why is he seeing them? If he gets angry in the session, he's then at significant risk of violating boundaries (what happens with anger) especially if he feels anonymous, and a good reason to blacklist which is why the references have pictures and are intended to prevent the monger from feeling anonymous.

Preventing the monger from feeling anonymous is the key way to keep providers safe. The same reason for security cameras which also invade our privacy.
 

darkwingbuck

Call me rocket; truth > lies, bros > pros
Messages: 986
Joined
#23
To ask the question again do you use a burner phone? I still haven't gotten an answer.

The point is we all have varying degrees of anonymity depending on how much effort, motivation someone needs to out us.

Hiding key things on DL, like address, first, last name is mostly to make monger feel less violated, and make it more difficult to get outed. Any experienced decoder with access to databases, like DL, telephone lookup, etc. can figure out who you are.

But driving this paranoia is the fear that someone or group is out to get me outed. These might be LE, or anti-prostition shamers, etc. Except for anonymous hackers doing this, it would result in lawsuits. LE won't divulge without indictments. The reality is there is an unavoidable risk of getting outed if you''re monger, mostly it's from ones own stupidity or carelessness. Guys have been sneaking nooky as long as women have been selling it.

Yeah, I believe orgs black list bad reviews. That's just good business. If you are bad mouthing our product, we don't want you using it. Which is why I always write specific constructive reviews that help match monger with provider.

But mostly I only think it's tracking the bad mongers who probably should be blacklisted. If a monger angryly disses providers in reviews, them why is he seeing them? If he gets angry in the session, he's then at significant risk of violating boundaries (what happens with anger) especially if he feels anonymous, and a good reason to blacklist which is why the references have pictures and are intended to prevent the monger from feeling anonymous.

Preventing the monger from feeling anonymous is the key way to keep providers safe. The same reason for security cameras which also invade our privacy.
If the question was to me, I use a burner phone, of course. In fact, I use several different numbers too. I also use tor or multiple VPNs for any of these sites.

In the world where facial recognition is a somber reality, if there was a silver lining for covid, it's that we can wear masks that conceal our faces without people thinking we're going to rob a bank.


That's just good business.
No, business is a two-way street. You don't get blacklisted from mickey ds by giving it a one star rating on yelp, do you? The reviews are for helping others make informed decisions. Entities that bl or threaten people for honest but negative reviews, are effectively bullying customers. Instead of addressing that their product is bad, they attempt to hide the visibility and publicity that their product is bad.


If a monger angryly disses providers in reviews, them why is he seeing them
if my local sandwich shop that sometimes has good sandwiches debuts two new sandwiches and they both taste like Athletes Foot, I am going to write angry reviews of those sandwiches. Are you really asking why I'm trying them out?


Preventing the monger from feeling anonymous is the key way to keep providers safe.
true, but remaining anonymous is the key way to keep a monger safe. Business is a two way street so I think both sides should at least be equally protected, no?
 

KalvinHobbs

Registered Member
Messages: 171
Reviews: 1
Joined
#24
This one is a tricky business and a lot harder to keep both party equally protected. People will just have to decide for themselves the risk for the better product imo
 

KalvinHobbs

Registered Member
Messages: 171
Reviews: 1
Joined
#25
Tried corgs and thailand where no verification involved but still prefer the korg even with the verification process. Enjoyed product and service better and worth it imo
 

KittyCon

Registered Member
Messages: 215
Reviews: 5
Joined
#26
There are multiple reasons for NOT giving out an ID, as well.

First, even if you "blank out key info", it's pii where you can be easily identifiable. If you have to leave your first and last name, you might as well have provided them your LinkedIn.


If you only provided the first name, but your first name is relatively unique, it's pretty much the same thing.


Here's the tough part. You could (and many are) be blacklisted for writing truthful negative reviews on these kind of forums. You were in the right, but you got BLd. If you never sent an ID, they don't have a good pic of you on file. Sure, they might take a pic of you anyway through the peephole but since 2020 masks do an excellent job of preventing people from taking pics of your mug, especially if you couple them with a hat.


Of course, discerning between "legit" BL and non-legit BL is not easy, and bad actors would probably exploit this, but I personally would never give any pii info to an org.
Didn't you just provide justification for the orgs to request id's so that the black list sticks?
 

darkwingbuck

Call me rocket; truth > lies, bros > pros
Messages: 986
Joined
#27
Didn't you just provide justification for the orgs to request id's so that the black list sticks?
I believe I acknowledged that in the part that says

"Of course, discerning between "legit" BL and non-legit BL is not easy, and bad actors would probably exploit this"

I am not criticizing any org or girl who requests an ID. I won't be giving them mine, however. I want anonymity.
 

Pecker_wood

Bonerhope, Pay4, Pete2, thomasbird, Ppipe, homas
Messages: 518
Reviews: 16
Joined
#28
Tried corgs and thailand where no verification involved but still prefer the korg even with the verification process. Enjoyed product and service better and worth it imo
Traditionally, corgs and bordellos, there is a guy who the bad monger has to deal with. In Thailand, I don't know, but maybe the police? Sex workers want to legalize since it makes it easier to file charges against bad mongers, but the provider needs to know who did it.
 

Pecker_wood

Bonerhope, Pay4, Pete2, thomasbird, Ppipe, homas
Messages: 518
Reviews: 16
Joined
#29
If the question was to me, I use a burner phone, of course. In fact, I use several different numbers too. I also use tor or multiple VPNs for any of these sites.

In the world where facial recognition is a somber reality, if there was a silver lining for covid, it's that we can wear masks that conceal our faces without people thinking we're going to rob a bank.



No, business is a two-way street. You don't get blacklisted from mickey ds by giving it a one star rating on yelp, do you? The reviews are for helping others make informed decisions. Entities that bl or threaten people for honest but negative reviews, are effectively bullying customers. Instead of addressing that their product is bad, they attempt to hide the visibility and publicity that their product is bad.


if my local sandwich shop that sometimes has good sandwiches debuts two new sandwiches and they both taste like Athletes Foot, I am going to write angry reviews of those sandwiches. Are you really asking why I'm trying them out?


true, but remaining anonymous is the key way to keep a monger safe. Business is a two way street so I think both sides should at least be equally protected, no?
To be fair, I acknowledge I don't have same liability as a lot of you, and would probably be less cavalier about being outed. I'm not very vulnerable, I have no significant other, mostly it would be embarrassing to my friends, but they are all liberal, like myself.

I don't use a burner since I don't feel that vulnerable and it's inconvenient. Nor care actually if being tracked. I turn on Google timeline on which tracks where I go, because it's useful. I like that Google maps can tell where traffic is jammed by using mine and other's locations. And these discussions are made possible by being anonymous is great.

Yeah, very good point, I use face mask and Sun hat or hoody going to appointments which we couldn't do before pandemic.

Presumably you know an org that has black listed for negative review? Presumably the provider must have read the bad review, and recognized the monger and complained to the PO? That's a valid problem, but orgs using blacklisting to punish for bad reviews undermines using blacklisting to protect provider. I would like to see the review in question. (You could PM me.).

But, goodpoint if a monger is unfairly blacklisted, the DL, pic IDs make it difficult to assume a new monger handle. But of course, the same pics and info are used to keep a legitimately blacklisted monger from getting back in. But it's true, if blacklisted, you didn't get a fair trial. And, orgs if busy don't care if they unfairly blacklist a few which is why I never walk and careful about how I write reviews.

I think "remaining anonymous is the key way to keep a monger safe" is mostly a rationalization to justify not giving out requested info. I intially had same reaction of stubbornly resisting which gives a sense of control while giving out info feels like being violated (it did for me).
But eventually the desire for sex overcomes the resistance.

The stubborn focus on not giving out the info blinds mongers to looking at the other ways their anonymity might be violated which has been discussed elsewhere. These other ways seem to be more common than an org outing a monger which Kittycon could find no example. "... In all of my years lurking (since mrb) and past few years hobbying I have never heard of misused personal info by a korg. ...."
This is #18 comment of
Review: BGC's Crown Jewel I: Jamie

What might be more effective is to figure out how to deal with being outed if the info gets out, like what's the story, rather than resisting giving out info. What is the story for a burner phone if it's discovered?

There is a fundamental conflict between monger anonymity and safety for.the provider. Because of that I don't think their ID requirements are unreasonable for provider safety. Although ironically part of the sex appeal is anonymity, no emotional entanglements, etc. A small % of completely anonymous mongers are way more likely to violate boundaries because they feel no one can hold them to account.

But, I respect if you don't want give out your ID, you have done a better job than me. But the consequence is not getting access to some orgs.

But I think all the whining about not fair to give out ID info, is clueless and unfair about real risks that providers face from anonymous mongers.
 

darkwingbuck

Call me rocket; truth > lies, bros > pros
Messages: 986
Joined
#30
I know orgs which BLd or threatened to bl over a review yes. Or did something passive agressive like texted after a bad review something like "we know that you wrote that review"

And no, I'm not going to say which review or which monger.

I personally don't take any offense at orgs that ask for things such as ID or paystub. I completely understand their concerns here, unlike the parts where thet lie (that's for another thread)


I just gave a mongers perspective of why not to give out an ID. Obviously, each person decides whether the risks are worth the payoff.

Personally it's never worth it for me as I do have refs thar I can use. I can't get in everywhere, but most places is good enough. For others who can't get anywhere, its probably a harder choice.
 
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