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Shogun on FX

Perfecto

Gentleman of the Sensual Arts
Messages: 496
Reviews: 47
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#22
Love the show and Anna Sawai. She caught my attention in Monarch. But the new Anjin is so forgettable. Doesn't compare to Richard Chamberlain! Maybe they wanted the spotlight to be on Anna!
I think he was casted to be an ignorant brute but he’s not…he has cunning. Something is definitely up…the next episode is going to be good.

I originally saw Mariko on Monarch…Legacy of Monsters just like you…I thought she was pretty hot and it was a good series too.
 

mitchxy1

Review Contributor
Messages: 429
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#23
I think he was casted to be an ignorant brute but he’s not…he has cunning. Something is definitely up…the next episode is going to be good.

I originally saw Mariko on Monarch…Legacy of Monsters just like you…I thought she was pretty hot and it was a good series too.
She was a good find on the show, but I wanted to see more Monster action!!!
And you guys know that Ishido, the enemy Regent, is the father in Monarch!
 

Perfecto

Gentleman of the Sensual Arts
Messages: 496
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#24
She was a good find on the show, but I wanted to see more Monster action!!!
And you guys know that Ishido, the enemy Regent, is the father in Monarch!
No really, I didn’t notice!!! I stumbled upon Monarch before I knew about Shogun…that’s funny. Toranaga is one of my favorite foreign actors. I first saw him in the Last Smaurai with Tom Cruise but have seen him in several movies since. He was most recently in John Wick 4.

Tony Jaa is probably my favorite foreign martial artist…
 

RickeyRomance

Too blessed to be stressed
Messages: 944
Reviews: 22
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#26
Love the show and Anna Sawai. She caught my attention in Monarch. But the new Anjin is so forgettable. Doesn't compare to Richard Chamberlain! Maybe they wanted the spotlight to be on Anna!
I've seen a few pieces on the new show and that's exactly what it is. They wanted to take the emphasis off of the European and have Japan be the true star of the show. That's why most of it is in Japanese with subtitles and they hired several Japanese culture consultants to get everything right from the tea ceremony to the way they walk to how the Samurai hold their katana. The barbarian is just another character and not the main character...probably as it should have always been.
 

mitchxy1

Review Contributor
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#27
Yes, I definitely noticed so much speaking in Japanese. A little annoying to have to read subtitles. But I get that they wanted it to be much more authentic.
 

Perfecto

Gentleman of the Sensual Arts
Messages: 496
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#28
Toranaga is not only the main character but he’s also one of the executive producers. He’s made sure everything is 100% consistent with how Japan in the 1600’s would have been. I agree, that they wanted the angle of this show to be more Japanese focused…which I really like.
 

RickeyRomance

Too blessed to be stressed
Messages: 944
Reviews: 22
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#30
So much BS with this "honor" stuff. Like it's honorable to kill yourself, and be remembered for your honor. Honor for your family name. Yet there's as much dishonesty and manipulation as these "honorable" acts. Loyalty also an abused term.
Hence why it's so interesting. They are obsessed with honor of the family name and appearances but, just below the surface, they are engaged in the same Shakesperian/Game of Thrones treachery as everyone else. I will say that the way they treated courtesans was more enlightened and mature than us now. Courtesans were seen as artisans. Even if the person, themselves, wasn't fully respected, their position in society certainly was.

But, I guess, along with that structure comes dictatorship, monarchy and the inability for any average person to ascend in that society without direct help from the feudal lords above them. Not ideal.
 

richardp2918

Review Contributor
Messages: 1,332
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#31
So much BS with this "honor" stuff. Like it's honorable to kill yourself, and be remembered for your honor. Honor for your family name. Yet there's as much dishonesty and manipulation as these "honorable" acts. Loyalty also an abused term.
Hence why it's so interesting. They are obsessed with honor of the family name and appearances but, just below the surface, they are engaged in the same Shakesperian/Game of Thrones treachery as everyone else. I will say that the way they treated courtesans was more enlightened and mature than us now. Courtesans were seen as artisans. Even if the person, themselves, wasn't fully respected, their position in society certainly was.

But, I guess, along with that structure comes dictatorship, monarchy and the inability for any average person to ascend in that society without direct help from the feudal lords above them. Not ideal.
Many aspects of successful societies involves people valuing/being brainwashed into embracing ideas that are good for the group and especially people in power. Killing yourself is "honorable" because that society thinks so...and it just so happens to be incredibly convenient for those in charge. So is the modern western concept of fighting with courage for your country, dying, and getting a medal with honorable burial...which is also incredibly convenient for those in charge and those who remain.

I'm not belittling the idea of military sacrifice...where would we be if WW2 vets didn't defend us against Germany and Japan? and many other wars...we obviously owe a great debt to those who fought to protect our way of life. I'm merely commenting on the social engineering and psychological aspect of "honor", which can be used for good or for bad...and frankly who decides what's "good" or "bad"? Those who win and write the history books.
 

Perfecto

Gentleman of the Sensual Arts
Messages: 496
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#32
Many aspects of successful societies involves people valuing/being brainwashed into embracing ideas that are good for the group and especially people in power. Killing yourself is "honorable" because that society thinks so...and it just so happens to be incredibly convenient for those in charge. So is the modern western concept of fighting with courage for your country, dying, and getting a medal with honorable burial...which is also incredibly convenient for those in charge and those who remain.

I'm not belittling the idea of military sacrifice...where would we be if WW2 vets didn't defend us against Germany and Japan? and many other wars...we obviously owe a great debt to those who fought to protect our way of life. I'm merely commenting on the social engineering and psychological aspect of "honor", which can be used for good or for bad...and frankly who decides what's "good" or "bad"? Those who win and write the history books.
This is a very thoughtful and objective view...all good!

I'm excited for the next episode...Toranaga, being the master strategist...you know he has a very good trick up his sleeve (not even really a trick). He plans for contingencies well in advance. I have a good idea what it might be but I won't speculate.
 

paco2888

AKA jacklondongreat
Messages: 2,018
Reviews: 21
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#33
Yes, I definitely noticed so much speaking in Japanese. A little annoying to have to read subtitles. But I get that they wanted it to be much more authentic.
I much prefer subtitles to dubbing when a foreign language is involved. It bothers me when lip movements don't match the audio. Having said that, I find that Netflix does a terrible job with subtitles. To see it, turn on subtitles for an English language show and you'll how the text doesn't match the spoken word, even taking into account the need to keep the text as brief as possible to accommodate the screen display.
 

mitchxy1

Review Contributor
Messages: 429
Reviews: 41
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#35
Thoughts on the ending?
I personally would have liked to see a real conclusion, not just based on theories on what was planned. Many things don't go as planned. And we shouldn't have to fall back on actual history to know.
 

Perfecto

Gentleman of the Sensual Arts
Messages: 496
Reviews: 47
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#36
It would have been nice to see a reenactment of the historic battle of sekigahara. The last episode was very emotional…and they left it with everyone wanting more. It was still beautifully done…
 

PurpleRayne33

We are all cut from the same block of stinky doufu
Messages: 544
Reviews: 41
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#37
Many aspects of successful societies involves people valuing/being brainwashed into embracing ideas that are good for the group and especially people in power. Killing yourself is "honorable" because that society thinks so...and it just so happens to be incredibly convenient for those in charge. So is the modern western concept of fighting with courage for your country, dying, and getting a medal with honorable burial...which is also incredibly convenient for those in charge and those who remain.

I'm not belittling the idea of military sacrifice...where would we be if WW2 vets didn't defend us against Germany and Japan? and many other wars...we obviously owe a great debt to those who fought to protect our way of life. I'm merely commenting on the social engineering and psychological aspect of "honor", which can be used for good or for bad...and frankly who decides what's "good" or "bad"? Those who win and write the history books.
Reminds me of a quote from the original manwhore Casanova: "Can the love of country, all holy though it be, prevail in the heart of the man whose country is oppressing him?"
 

Skeeter

Review Contributor
Messages: 338
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#38
It was a bit disappointing how it just ended.
But to be honest... once Mariko was out of the picture, it wasn't the same for me.
Not only is she hot, she gave a great performance.
 

mitchxy1

Review Contributor
Messages: 429
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#40
It's a little scary thinking how life in Japan was back then. The devotion to your Lord, while also still scheming behind his back. You commit suicide if told to, but would still join his enemy. Strange contradiction. Even life in general was hard to conceive, with both women and men being held to very strict standards and being held accountable to it by everyone. Probably similar to some of the Middle Eastern religions today.
 
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