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Covid-19/Infectious disease expert opinions go here

krideynyc

Review Contributor
Messages: 4,165
Reviews: 9
Joined
We can't forget that Paracelsus' law always applies, and no two of us have the same physiology. Some drugs that work in some don't work in others.
I think i am a bigger danger to me than the vaccine, but don't mind if a few million get vaccinated before me to test that theory out!
We each have our level of acceptable risk. Even with the most transparent of research data, we won't know for sure how the vaccine will affect us until we get it. Each of the 4 vaccine candidates all act slightly differently in how it gets our bodies to start the antibody production. Plus, given that only 60% of the population needs to have the antibodies for Herd Immunity, not everyone needs to get it at the same time. Wide spread distribution isn't anticipated at least until maybe March. Early adopters will probably need the booster soon after the 28 days window for the vaccine to be effective. So it could be May before we're close enough to that 60%.

By the same token however, the earlier enough people get the vaccine, the earlier we reach Herd Immunity.
 

BIGBOB62

Registered Member
Messages: 28
Joined
That is a very tough turn of events for you. There have been many examples of unethical behavior in the drug business, and I don't know the breakdown but quite a few are around finances, fending off generics, and some are due to scientific fraud.....but for the vast majority of the companies it is an ethical process. Incremental improvements in efficacy are the typical advances, maybe less or different side effects, and occasionally a breakthrough occurs such as with the recent check point inhibitors. But every drug is a risk.

We can't forget that Paracelsus' law always applies, and no two of us have the same physiology. Some drugs that work in some don't work in others.

My concern with vaccines falls under the long shadow of the 1976 swine flu vaccine, which was fraught with political and scientific deriliction. I have to remember that the first FDA GLP regulations were a result of industrial biotest falsification of studies, the final rule came out in 1979. Scientific rigor was much different back then.

The irony for me and my questioning of the safety of vaccines is that I have probably done more damage to me because of my unhealthy diet than any vaccine will do to me.

I believe the mRNA vaccines will be pretty safe, all they do is produce the viral S protein for our body to react to.
Everybody should be able to make their own decision here. I agree on these new vaccines, the tech seems promising. I’m in a situation where I can stay reasonably safe myself. I’ve been religious about mask wearing from the start, and I haven’t been inside a store or a restaurant since August. I live alone, virtually the only contact I have is my spa visits. I feel a lot better now that trump is leaving, about vaccines, not as much that he was rushing things, as much as he was firing anyone who spoke out. There’s a lot of smarter scientific people than me and over time the truth will come out. Until then I’ll stick to isolating and mask wearing.
 

easy2please

Banned....on the run
Messages: 387
Reviews: 9
Joined
I am trying to figure out what is wrong with a drug company making profit off their work.
The opioids they claimed were non-addictive comes to mind. They knew from the jump it was a lie. Dealing in death & misery was simply a bottom line decision, as they also knew whatever fine they paid would be a fraction of their blood money windfall.
 

BIGBOB62

Registered Member
Messages: 28
Joined
The opioids they claimed were non-addictive comes to mind. They knew from the jump it was a lie. Dealing in death & misery was simply a bottom line decision, as they also knew whatever fine they paid would be a fraction of their blood money windfall.
Insulin comes to mind for me, as another personal example. Invented in 1922, patent long gone. Manufacturing cost is pennies, yet somehow magically cost 500 dollars a month without insurance. Needed by millions and poor people have to skip doses as a consequence. Government insurance and pharmas all conspire to keep competition out too.
Don’t give me that bullshit about pharmas doing gods work.
 

njlefty

Registered Member
Messages: 2,389
Reviews: 5
Joined
Everybody should be able to make their own decision here. I agree on these new vaccines, the tech seems promising. I’m in a situation where I can stay reasonably safe myself. I’ve been religious about mask wearing from the start, and I haven’t been inside a store or a restaurant since August. I live alone, virtually the only contact I have is my spa visits. I feel a lot better now that trump is leaving, about vaccines, not as much that he was rushing things, as much as he was firing anyone who spoke out. There’s a lot of smarter scientific people than me and over time the truth will come out. Until then I’ll stick to isolating and mask wearing.
I am pretty much in the same boat, live alone, having a Swanson for Thanksgiving, but I have not done the AMP thing. Every time I thought about it, the virus hospitalizations kept increasing.
 

BIGBOB62

Registered Member
Messages: 28
Joined
I am pretty much in the same boat, live alone, having a Swanson for Thanksgiving, but I have not done the AMP thing. Every time I thought about it, the virus hospitalizations kept increasing.
i stopped in March, then decided to treat myself in august one time. Bumped into the hottest, sexiest girl I’ve been with in 20 years. I know I shouldn’t keep going, it so out of whack with how safe I stay the rest of the time. But I also know I’ll never see a better girl in a spa again. So in this case I’ll risk it. Inject some shit in my body certified by god knows who? I draw the line. That’s crazy shit.
 

njlefty

Registered Member
Messages: 2,389
Reviews: 5
Joined
i stopped in March, then decided to treat myself in august one time. Bumped into the hottest, sexiest girl I’ve been with in 20 years. I know I shouldn’t keep going, it so out of whack with how safe I stay the rest of the time. But I also know I’ll never see a better girl in a spa again. So in this case I’ll risk it. Inject some shit in my body certified by god knows who? I draw the line. That’s crazy shit.
I'll take the risk of the shot. Shucks, I was drinking the poisoned water of my town's water supply for years.
 

charliebrown

Review Contributor
Messages: 2,354
Reviews: 116
Joined
@BIGBOB62, With almost every drug produced, there is a risk/reward and 99.9% of the time, the drug has more benefits than pitfalls. I am absolutely sorry for the instances where medicine does produce a bad outcome but even the worse drugs released in the general market benefit more people than they hurt.

There is now a ton of scientific data describing the spread of this virus and the risks of death or ailment it can and does cause the people it contacts. What is even worse with this novel virus is that it still does not have any scientific studies understanding the long term damage it can cause one who has had the virus.

On top of all of the unknown risks associated with corona virus if I have it, there is is additional risk of unknowingly transmitting those risks to community members, associates, friends, and/or loved ones. Super Spreader.

Since I am in a higher risk group (age) and having many people I love and care for with the additional trait of having compassion for all fellow community members. I personally find those risks to be much higher on the long term outlook for my life than the unknowns associated with a scientifically controlled vaccination.

This vaccine will be developed by the pharmaceutical industry, it is and will be distributed first and foremost to the health care industry. By the time we are capable of being vaccinated, their will be a ton more evidence on the effects of both the VIRUS and the VACCINE.

Last but not least, if all of us are so willing to put our lives on hold for almost a year already because of this virus with absolutely horrible and lifelong impacting results to so many people, then forgive me for lashing out at the end of this horrible year when I find out half the people are afraid of a vaccine. Maybe I should not have used the word stupid. Maybe, just maybe I would like to live in a socially active vibrant community than exist in a lonely isolated self absorbed life.

I really miss hugging, kissing, socializing, eating, drinking, celebrating with human beings. The vaccines and/or pharmaceutical industry is the only way will get back to a normal way of life.

And yes, we are paying fucking tolls, bills, taxes and fees every day to commence with our lives, one more will not kill me.
 

KittyHawk

Review Contributor
Messages: 838
Reviews: 14
Joined
Maybe I should not have used the word stupid.
"Vaccine reluctant" is much more PC.
I really miss hugging, kissing, socializing, eating, drinking, celebrating with human beings
I told my atf that I will kiss her again some day. That has been the most frustrating lifestyle change I have had to deal with.
 

J n J

Review Contributor
Messages: 423
Reviews: 32
Joined
Kinda interesting that the pro's and con's of a vaccine are being discussed on a whore board. That said I plan to get the vaccine as soon as it's available but I think the risk is the long term effects. 10/20 years from now and generations to come. I guess that's the case with any drug we put into our body.
 

charliebrown

Review Contributor
Messages: 2,354
Reviews: 116
Joined
Kinda interesting that the pro's and con's of a vaccine are being discussed on a whore board. That said I plan to get the vaccine as soon as it's available but I think the risk is the long term effects. 10/20 years from now and generations to come. I guess that's the case with any drug we put into our body.
Not arguing with you on the possible long term effects, but just noting that their are serious short term effects and could be long term effects for anyone who has had a serious covid case. Short term effects are clearly documented, long term effects like the vaccine are not.
 

BIGBOB62

Registered Member
Messages: 28
Joined
@BIGBOB62, With almost every drug produced, there is a risk/reward and 99.9% of the time, the drug has more benefits than pitfalls. I am absolutely sorry for the instances where medicine does produce a bad outcome but even the worse drugs released in the general market benefit more people than they hurt.

There is now a ton of scientific data describing the spread of this virus and the risks of death or ailment it can and does cause the people it contacts. What is even worse with this novel virus is that it still does not have any scientific studies understanding the long term damage it can cause one who has had the virus.

On top of all of the unknown risks associated with corona virus if I have it, there is is additional risk of unknowingly transmitting those risks to community members, associates, friends, and/or loved ones. Super Spreader.

Since I am in a higher risk group (age) and having many people I love and care for with the additional trait of having compassion for all fellow community members. I personally find those risks to be much higher on the long term outlook for my life than the unknowns associated with a scientifically controlled vaccination.

This vaccine will be developed by the pharmaceutical industry, it is and will be distributed first and foremost to the health care industry. By the time we are capable of being vaccinated, their will be a ton more evidence on the effects of both the VIRUS and the VACCINE.

Last but not least, if all of us are so willing to put our lives on hold for almost a year already because of this virus with absolutely horrible and lifelong impacting results to so many people, then forgive me for lashing out at the end of this horrible year when I find out half the people are afraid of a vaccine. Maybe I should not have used the word stupid. Maybe, just maybe I would like to live in a socially active vibrant community than exist in a lonely isolated self absorbed life.

I really miss hugging, kissing, socializing, eating, drinking, celebrating with human beings. The vaccines and/or pharmaceutical industry is the only way will get back to a normal way of life.

And yes, we are paying fucking tolls, bills, taxes and fees every day to commence with our lives, one more will not kill me.
It’s a sign of the times, I think that 50 percent or so of the people are like me, not trusting pharma or government. The pharma mistrust is implicit for me, I’ve got a lifetime of experience seeing them as rich, profit focused, immoral companies, not the altruistic organizations they pretend to be.
On the government side, I’d say before this our government was lumbering and incompetent, but not inherently dishonest.
I feel like we’ve been lied to and manipulated since day 1 of this outbreak. It isn’t just Trump. But he probably drove a lot of the response I’m talking about, in terms of excessive closures, constant bickering, etc.
If Biden does nothing else, I hope he creates a lot more honesty in discussing the way forward and our options, and we get a sense of shared fate.
It would mean a lot to me if I saw medical professionals getting mass vaccinations. After all, they are smarter than me. It would also mean a lot if the president and congress went out and got it too. But I’m not holding my breath there.
The political world is so weird on this (and it shouldn’t be political). All the trump humpers I know are pro vaccine right now, even though many of them won’t take vaccines. Much of the Biden folks, don’t trust it. Will this flip when Jan 20 comes around?
as to why discussing on a whore board, it’s totally appropriate. We’re a lot more exposed than the general public. I’m only really seeing a couple girls right now. One is kinda taking my very cautious approach. The other, will take the vaccine as quickly as she can get it, her whole 4 girl spa plans to do it, then tell customers and drive more business. Interesting times.
 

KittyHawk

Review Contributor
Messages: 838
Reviews: 14
Joined
It’s a sign of the times, I think that 50 percent or so of the people are like me, not trusting pharma or government. The pharma mistrust is implicit for me, I’ve got a lifetime of experience seeing them as rich, profit focused, immoral companies, not the altruistic organizations they pretend to be.
On the government side, I’d say before this our government was lumbering and incompetent, but not inherently dishonest.
I feel like we’ve been lied to and manipulated since day 1 of this outbreak. It isn’t just Trump. But he probably drove a lot of the response I’m talking about, in terms of excessive closures, constant bickering, etc.
I have to say that I am with you on that. In the video that I linked to are things that I already knew and some that I wasn't aware of. None of them make me feel too good about this whole thing!
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref...bbb4-f0384c854b81&q=uebert angel banned video
 

charliebrown

Review Contributor
Messages: 2,354
Reviews: 116
Joined
It’s a sign of the times, I think that 50 percent or so of the people are like me, not trusting pharma or government. The pharma mistrust is implicit for me, I’ve got a lifetime of experience seeing them as rich, profit focused, immoral companies, not the altruistic organizations they pretend to be.
On the government side, I’d say before this our government was lumbering and incompetent, but not inherently dishonest.
I feel like we’ve been lied to and manipulated since day 1 of this outbreak. It isn’t just Trump. But he probably drove a lot of the response I’m talking about, in terms of excessive closures, constant bickering, etc.
If Biden does nothing else, I hope he creates a lot more honesty in discussing the way forward and our options, and we get a sense of shared fate.
It would mean a lot to me if I saw medical professionals getting mass vaccinations. After all, they are smarter than me. It would also mean a lot if the president and congress went out and got it too. But I’m not holding my breath there.
The political world is so weird on this (and it shouldn’t be political). All the trump humpers I know are pro vaccine right now, even though many of them won’t take vaccines. Much of the Biden folks, don’t trust it. Will this flip when Jan 20 comes around?
as to why discussing on a whore board, it’s totally appropriate. We’re a lot more exposed than the general public. I’m only really seeing a couple girls right now. One is kinda taking my very cautious approach. The other, will take the vaccine as quickly as she can get it, her whole 4 girl spa plans to do it, then tell customers and drive more business. Interesting times.
As with this election, this disease will drive us to pick the least of two evils, virus or vaccine. The vaccine is not here yet and it will not be available to us slugs for at least a month or two. Please take the existing and all new information related to the virus and the vaccine and give me some scientific evident between the two that says the probability of getting the virus and negative effects is better than the negative effects of a vaccine and I will gladly change my mind. Right now, the risk of getting and dying of the virus is high enough to keep everyone scared shitless and hiding in their basements. THAT SUCKS for entirely too many reasons to list on a forum.
 

Matawan3

Review Contributor
Messages: 76
Joined
The opioids they claimed were non-addictive comes to mind. They knew from the jump it was a lie. Dealing in death & misery was simply a bottom line decision, as they also knew whatever fine they paid would be a fraction of their blood money windfall.
As a sufferer of kidney stones, I can honestly say I might be dead without opioids. I'd be on them for long periods, and the high was amazing. But the second I knew I didn't need them, I was able to quit them, no problem. Now when I have kidney stone problems, the war of opiods puts me at a great risk. When I show up at the ER in agony, they want to play games with Tylenhol. Look, I didn't show up there risking a potential $5000 bill for some Tylenhol. I am at the end of my rope, I REQUIRE narcotics. I am not a junky, I am not an addict. Check my chart. But still, they are reluctant. It is VERY dangerous.

I understand there is addiction, and the drug companies are to blame.

But maybe see the other side of it too?
 

Matawan3

Review Contributor
Messages: 76
Joined
I didn't say we go straight there. I said the Govt needs to go there when the two conditions I mentioned exist for that specific location. And it's a not just shutting down the entire Nation, just areas where it's deemed necessary. I can't say when that is, because that's also determined by each specific Govt agency in charge. From Mayors, to Governors, to finally the President. But even that last shutdown wasn't a Federal on. It was just that almost all the State Governors decided to do so.

Show me where I said vaccines of being dangerous.
I don't disagree with lockdowns for areas with hospitals reaching capacity. But a lot of the lockdowns happening now are in places where the hospitals aren't even close to capacity. So you'd agree those lockdowns aren't necessary?

Sorry, I thought you had agreed with a previous poster that the vaccine was being rushed and therefore; dangerous. I guess not.
 

krideynyc

Review Contributor
Messages: 4,165
Reviews: 9
Joined
I don't disagree with lockdowns for areas with hospitals reaching capacity. But a lot of the lockdowns happening now are in places where the hospitals aren't even close to capacity. So you'd agree those lockdowns aren't necessary?
Personally. no. But as I’ve said, they determine the conditions for lockdown. And if the numbers are high enough to max capacity during the lockdown period, then to them it’s justified. It’s a matter of having a buffer of hospital beds.
 

easy2please

Banned....on the run
Messages: 387
Reviews: 9
Joined
As a sufferer of kidney stones, I can honestly say I might be dead without opioids. I'd be on them for long periods, and the high was amazing. But the second I knew I didn't need them, I was able to quit them, no problem. Now when I have kidney stone problems, the war of opiods puts me at a great risk. When I show up at the ER in agony, they want to play games with Tylenhol. Look, I didn't show up there risking a potential $5000 bill for some Tylenhol. I am at the end of my rope, I REQUIRE narcotics. I am not a junky, I am not an addict. Check my chart. But still, they are reluctant. It is VERY dangerous.

I understand there is addiction, and the drug companies are to blame.

But maybe see the other side of it too?
Kidney stone pain is no joke, and you are the victim of the pendulum swinging the other way. For years big pharma lobbied HARD to have opioid prescribed for every stubbed toe and paper cut, now doctors are reluctant to give them to people in real pain.

Since this a covid thread I don't want to get off topic. I just worry that this 95% effective vaccine (a month ago we were hearing 75% would be amazing) is not all it's cracked up to be. With the expedited timeline corners are more likely to be cut, and m-RNA vaccines on this scale are unprecedented. Big pharma's track record when billions in profits are on the line is also less than stellar. Hopefully I'm wrong
 
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